King Knight vs Big Jack Horner (Shovel Knight vs Dreamworks) VS Prediction Blog
"Don't care how: I want it now!" - Veruca Salt
King Knight, the not-so-knightly lord of Pridemoor Keep
Big Jack Horner, the bakery based crime lord seeking The Last Wish
When it comes to monsters, there are many things they can be spawned from, whether that be in response to the sin of others, circumstances forcing them over the line, or being raised to be hurtful from the start. However, these two childish villains have no such excuse, being raised by loving parents and getting everything they could need. However, they’d throw away their chances to be good for a petty goal and their selfish drive for more, being willing to sacrifice anything and anyone for what they see as their destiny. With their arsenals of magical weapons making up for their personal lack of finesse, which of these two embodiments of gluttony both figurative and literal would come out on top?
Before We Begin
King Knight will be drawing from all the titles in his series, including the original game and its DLCs, Showdown, Pocket Dungeon, and DIG. Though in terms of arsenal, I’m just bringing stuff he has access to in his own campaign, as well as options exclusive to him in the other titles. He also will not be given any cross scaling to other universes in the various crossovers Shovel Knight’s been in. (Yes this does include Kratos, as while the boss fight is technically canon, it’s also not really going over Shovel Knight stats at that point).
As for Jack, this will primarily be focusing on information from the movie itself, along with details from its novelization and other Shrek / Puss in Boots media that can be said to be in the same canon, including the other movies, shorts, tv series, and games. That being said, this will not include stuff like the original Shrek book, the musical, or the Kattobi! Shrek manga, which are far more blatantly alternate continuities to the films. Finally, no stuff from crossovers for him either, apologies for anyone hoping for Father of the Pride to be feat searched.
(Note: This blog was originally made a bit ago, and is therefore a bit outdated in a few points)
Background
King Knight
“As the embodiment of opulence, I demand tribute!”
In the time of chivalry and knights, there was the feared Order of No Quarter, which was a group of powerful knights that had taken control of the valley under orders of The Enchantress. Their members consisted of an undead lich wielding a scythe trying to atone for the mistakes of his past, an alchemist seeking to create the ultimate potion to prove his worth, and many others. But one among them seemed to harbor a want that could never be sated, and didn’t seem to comprehend how hated his journey had made him. As within the Pridemoor Keep, there was a man clad in armor of glistening gold, who had claimed the castle from its rightful ruler, and whose pompousness bellied a man desperate for respect and power at whatever the cost. His name was King Knight.
That being said, his opulence wasn’t something he was just given. As a child, he grew up being raised by his doting single mother in squalid conditions, which gave him a want to rise up and become king. His wish was granted when he heard of a tournament for a card game named Joustus, in which the winner who bested the 3 Joustus judges would be crowned the King of Cards. While the title was just that, he still desired the respect the title of King could bring, leading to him going on a journey to defeat them.
On his journey, he’d end up doing battle with many foes, and would end up forming a small posse of allies, even including the King of Pridemoor, King Pridemoor, who would try to act as a mentor to the Knight, but seemed just a bit too trusting. King Knight would manage to defeat the 3 judges, but it turned out it was all a ploy by The Enchantress, who had created the tourney as a distraction for the Valley while she gathered her own power. Enraged, he’d lead his new allies against the Enchantress, ultimately managing to best her and her attempts to stop him.
However, the Enchantress would end up seeing King Knight’s ego and play to it, promising the title of King and the lordship of Pridemoor to him in exchange for his loyalty. While his allies attempted to talk him down, he would ultimately betray all of them, becoming the first Knight of the Order of No Quarter. He’d promptly go on a powertrip, banning Joustus so that no one could challenge his title, and redecorated Pridemoor Keep to fit its new lord. Though his victory would be hollow, as all his allies had abandoned him, even the good king and his mother.
Despite this, King Knight seemed to be happy in his new position, often flaunting his decadence. Though there were occasionally some hints he was somewhat aware of his empty title, he just was deluding himself into believing he was where he wanted. Regardless, ultimately his reign as ruler would come to the end off the heels of a knight wielding a digging instrument of some kind, who would take him and the rest of the order down. After this, the rightful ruler of the Keep would offer some mercy to the knight, but not before he scrubbed all the floors of the kingdom.
Big Jack Horner
“You're horrible! You're an irredeemable monster!”
“Woah, woah! What took you so long, idiot?!”
The initial story of Little Jack Horner isn’t exactly too complicated, as it simply notes the story of a small child in a corner who eats a pie, before ruining it by sticking his thumb into and pulling out one of its plums while claiming he was a good boy. However, in a universe of living fairy tales, this boy would end up trying to be the mascot of his parent’s baking business, only to be upstaged by other more interesting fairy tale stories, like a certain talking wooden puppet. While he did live a very charmed life otherwise, as his parents loved him and they’d grow their humble baking business into a successful company, this experience still filled him with bitterness towards other magical creatures. As such, when he grew to an adult, he’d end up starting a criminal enterprise of his own with the family baking business as a front, and wanting to bury the embarrassment of his past, would choose to now be known as Big Jack Horner.
Jack would make it his mission to gather as much of the world’s magic as he could, seeing it as his way of finally being better than the fairy tale creatures that embarrassed him in the past. He’d end up plundering a collection of various magical artifacts from these stories, but no matter how many he’d get, he’d still desire more. That’s when he learned of the Wishing Star, which was hidden within a forest few could survive the journey through and was capable of granting any one wish. He intended to use this wish to drain the world of all its magic for himself, wiping out all magical creatures in the process. He’d end up briefly getting his hands on the map to the star, and while the legendary outlaw Puss in Boots managed to steal the map from under him, he’d give chase accompanied by his posse.
Throughout the Dark Forest, he’d end up coming to blows with the heroes he was pursuing and another group of outlaws wanting the wish for their own goals. While most of his posse would end up dead by his negligent hands or abandoning him due to his unrepentance in his ways, he’d end up coming to blows on the Wishing Star itself. While he initially was taken out of the fight, he’d end up growing giant, and he’d seemingly be set to use the Last Wish on himself. However, his cruelty would end up being his undoing, as those who’d suffer at his hands would ultimately destroy the method of granting the wish, ultimately causing the star to collapse with him in it. In his final moments, all he could do was question what he had done to deserve such a fate.
…as in what specifically he had done, he was well aware of the fact that he deserved it in the first place.
Intelligence & Skill
King Knight
While he can come off as a bit of a pompous fool, King Knight has managed to prove himself to be a pretty skilled warrior at his peak. In his own campaign he was able to beat many of the strongest fighters of the Valley in a fight on his own, including the other future members of the Order of No Quarter, the Wandering Travelers, and even the Enchantress herself. He’s also skilled in the board game Joustus, being able to best all the above in the game, and even gaining the respect of Cardia in the process, who hails from another planet and is searching for a worthy challenger in the art. Finally, he also seems to be pretty crafty, as the various obstacles in his stage and his main minion force of rats with jetpacks show.
Big Jack Horner
Jack is a fairly intelligent criminal, as he was able to create a massive crime syndicate that most of the main characters were fearful of crossing, and gain a massive collection of fairy tale artifacts. He’s a fairly competent tracker, as he was able to keep up a chase on the party of the movie thanks to his Crystal Ball, and had the instincts to traverse through the Wishing Star’s forest with little implied difficulty. He also is the head of a successful baked goods business which he uses as a front for his crime, indicating he does have some business savvy.
Equipment
King Knight
Scepter
His main weapon is this golden staff, which he uses to smack people and literally make them kneel before him.
Joustus Cards
A set of cards which have a large variety of, the full list of which can be found here. While in the King of Cards campaign he mainly uses this for their intended purpose as a children’s card game, other titles have shown him actively utilizing them in combat. In Spectre of Torment he utilizes them as a projectile attack, while in Pocket Dungeon, he can chain together attacks to create cards of the enemies hurt in these chains, which he can play later for additional damage or effects.
Heirlooms
Propeller Blitzsteed
Using this creates a flying lance that travels forward in a straight line, stabbing any enemy it makes contact with.
Rat Bombardier:
With this he summons a Rat with a bomb attached to its back, who will run forward along the ground, jumping over gaps. The bomb explodes when the rat comes in contact with an enemy.
Bubble Frog:
This is a frog which, when used, wraps himself in a bubble, allowing him to float over pits and other obstacles, though he is left helpless during the duration of it.
Scepter Of Swiftness
While wielding this, he launches himself forward at great speeds, striking down anything in his path. This also allows him to travel through the air or across the water as a dash.
Gyro Boots
Using this he spins at great speed, creating a tornado around himself that damages enemies. This also allows him to climb up walls while active.
Healing Hammer
A hammer he pulls out to smack foes. Hitting an enemy with this drains their health while creating a health heart, which can heal him on contact.
Dueling Glove
Using this he slaps the opponent with gloves. It can be used as a quick melee attack, and due to its low vigor cost, it can be used repeatedly to rack up damage.
Turn Coat
Using this, he is able to create a shield which will absorb incoming attacks, and then fire them back in the form of an energy blast. The shield will expire after a few seconds, releasing any stored damage automatically.
Scorching Saber
Using this blade, he spins through the air while covered in fire. He then slams the sword on the ground, creating a small burst of flame in front of him.
Horns of Heralding
Finally, he can summon several large horns that blast many pieces of confetti around him, which somehow hurt foes when they hit them. He can also shoot cards out of these horns, which can travel around in random directions.
Armor
King's Costume
His standard garb, which was stitched lovingly by his mother. Also the armor is not actual gold, just painted to look like that. And neither is his crown.
Lightweight Plate
When using this, he can run faster for a short time.
Vestments of Vigor
When equipped this allows him to regain his vigor by damaging foes.
Battery Brigandine
This armor allows him to charge up a stronger shoulder bash by holding a button, which is capable of launching him in any direction, including up or down.
Rodent Regalia
Using this, he can summon rats, which will save him from instant hazards at the cost of some of his health.
Resplendent Cape
Display your decadence! Useful only to impress.
Ultimate Supreme Set
A custom armor gotten by paying 60 real life dollars for a set of three amiibos and scanning them. Much like the Resplendent Cape, it does nothing special besides look cool.
Big Jack Horner
Magic Nanny Bag
Presumably taken from Mary Poppins, this is a magic satchel Horner carries around with him which contains a dimensional storage area to carry all of his equipment. It’s also capable of opening up to fit bigger objects, such as Jack himself.
Crossbow with Baby Unicorn Horns
This is a crossbow which can fire projectiles, with his ammo of choice being Baby Unicorn Horns. These have the special effect in that whoever they hit is spontaneously transmuted into an explosion of confetti, effectively killing them.
The Midas Touch
This is a golden hand which he can use to transmute anything it touches into solid gold. Which as the Serpent Sisters found out, includes people.
Trident
Taken from the god of the seas Posiedon, this is a sharp spear which he used as a throwing weapon. And while he didn’t demonstrate this himself, other media showed it also grants the wielder the ability to manipulate water (2:44) and the weather (also mentioned at 0:25 in the previous vid).
Umbrella
Also taken from Mary Poppins, this is an umbrella he can use to fly around.
Magic Wand
Presumably taken from the Fairy Godmother of Cinderella, this is a wand which can transmute a pumpkin into a large war carriage. If it does other spells he nevers shows them.
Crystal Ball
Similar to the one used by the Wicked Witch of the West, this is a magic ball that enables him to magically spy on foes. It also allows for really sick transitions.
Excalibur
The legendary blade of King Arthur, though given he is obviously not worthy of the title of king, he couldn’t draw it from the stone. So he just dug up the stone itself to use the blade as a bludgeoning weapon.
Phoenix
A legendary bird that will be reborn in fire when it falls, which Horner opts to abuse and utilize as an improvised flamethrower.
Wizard Staff
A magical staff of no real clear origin that can fire blasts of magical energy from the gem at its center. These blasts were shown to be powerful enough to send a bear flying back a bit.
Poison Apple Grenades
A bandolier of poisonous apples which can explode into a cloud of green mist when they impact the ground. Though whether or not they’re actually poison is unclear.
Eat Me Cookie & Drink Me Drink
Likely taken from Alice in Wonderland, these are a set of treats. The cookie allows him to grow to a massive size. And while the drink’s effect wasn’t shown, it likely would allow him to shrink in size.
Magic Carpet
This is another method that gives him flight, though the carpet is light enough that it got stopped by simply being pinned to a wall. Interestingly a similar carpet was used by the Three Pigs in Shrek Smash n' Crash Racing, though it’s unclear if it’s the same one.
Cinderella’s Slipper
A glass slipper taken from Cinderella. Jack did write it off as useless, but both the Shrek and Disney versions of the princess have shown it can be a dangerous weapon if need be.
Captain Hook’s Hook
It is indeed the hook of Captain Hook. It doesn’t seem to have any abilities, but it is still another sharp object to potentially attack with. Though it isn’t sharp enough to stab through piano keys.
Sleeping Beauty's Spindle
A spindle he randomly pulled out of his bag at one point. Could potentially give the ability to make anyone who pricks their finger on it go to sleep, but that was never really stated, and would be pretty situational regardless.
Hatchet
A hatchet he pulled out and attempted to bury in a non-figurative way. Not really anything to it but it is another sharp thing.
Misc Melee Weapons
A bunch of various medieval weaponry which he never ends up using. All of them would presumably be pretty deadly.
Abilities
King Knight
Shoulder Bash
His most basic attack, he promptly charges at the opponent and slams into them with his shoulder, as you might expect from the name. He can also dash in midair to gain extra distance from a jump.
Roll
King Knight can also cancel his shoulder bash into a forward roll that damages any enemy it hits
Spin
Shoulder Bashing into an enemy or wall will then cause King Knight to start spinning in mid-air. While spinning, he can then damage enemies by landing on them.
Upgrades
He also has access to several upgrades to his own abilities
Blast Roll: Increases the power of the roll if he does it with the correct timing.
Impact Sparks: Allows him to shoot out impact sparks if he lands on the ground while spinning. Only works if he has full health.
Wealth Whirl: Allows him to attract and absorb nearby gold while spinning.
Healing Tears: Once a stage this allows him to be a little baby and cry, creating Health Hearts that can heal him on contact.
Big Jack Horner
Nothing
Jack really doesn’t have anything notable he does without equipment. What a loser.
Associates
King Knight
Propeller Rats
A common enemy within his levels, which are rats he’s personally equipped with helipads to be able to fly through the air. King Knight himself has shown the ability to call 4 of them to his aid in boss fights, as well as use them to float. While they mainly attack by just flying at you, they seem to be somewhat intelligent, as they have been seen carrying scissors, dropping barriers, packing bombs, and carrying drills. They can also group together into a group of 5 to become the mighty Rat King, which basically acts the same, they just need 5 hits to take down instead of only one.
Also they are very cute and someone should make a plush of them.
Decrees
King Knight also has access to these, which are single-use scrolls which can briefly summon an assistant enemy who will fly behind and follow King Knight around for 25 seconds before despawning. However, he can only hold up to two of these scrolls at once.
Decree of Destruction - This summons a baby griffon who will spit out spike balls to attack foes.
Decree of Rejuvenation - This summons a winged Troupple, which will slowly recover King Knight’s health and vigor until they’re despawned.
Decree of Soaring - This summons a Birder to carry King Knight over pits and spikes.
Big Jack Horner
The Baker’s Dozen
This is a group of 13 baker themed mercenaries that accompany Jack. They are equipped with a variety of baking themed weaponry, and are reasonably good in a fight. All of them did die during the trip, but to be fair that was mainly due to Jack not being a good boss.
Ethical Bug
Completely legally distinct from any bug which may have followed around a talking Italian puppet, this is a bug that Jack initially thought would be good for taking out a bunch of sentient plants. However, it turned out he was more interested in acting as Jack’s conscience and trying to make him see the error of his ways, which Jack did not give the slightest shit about. He didn’t really fight much, but I suppose he’d make for a decent distraction or something.
Forms
King Knight
Nothing
King Knight doesn’t really have alternate forms, unless you want to stretch and count his armors as this, which I’m not gonna do.
Big Jack Horner
Bigger Jack Horner
By eating the “Eat Me” cookie, he’ll end up growing to a gigantic size. This increased his strength to the point where he could send Puss and Kitty flying just with a flick, and didn’t seem to decrease his own speed. Also thankfully his clothes grew with him, so you don’t have to witness him naked.
Small Jack Horner
While he never shows it, possessing the “Drink Me” drink should also provide him with the ability to shrink, which I’m sure will be useful
Feats
King Knight
Overall
Took over Pridemoor Keep as it’s “rightful” king
Led the Gildewing against the Enchantress before betraying them
Was the first member of the Order of No Quarter to be recruited by the Enchantress
Defeated King Pridemoor, the Troupple King, and King Birder as part of his quest to become the King of Cards
Defeated the other members of the Order of No Quarter, the Wandering Travelers, and the Grand Triumvirate
Power
As seen above, can cause the floor of his castle to shift just by dropping down onto it
Can potentially support the weight of the entire Order of No Quarter
Held up the weight of a house with Mr Hat while being pulled into the sky (10.76 - 16.73 tons of TNT)
Was able to keep up with and defeat several other members of the Order of No Quarter, meaning he should be comparable to their feats
Black Knight can shatter a large amount of stone in a single blow (0.25 tons of tnt) and summon meteors (4.705 kilotons)
Specter Knight can slice cannonballs in half and shatter the Mirror of Fate himself
Plague Knight claimed he could blow up a castle made of clouds
Plague Knight also inadvertently collapsed the Tower of Fate himself with the Ultimate Potion, which was made of the essences of all the other knights of the Order (King Knight included)
Has fought with foes that were able to defeat the Enchantress and kept up with her in a fight himself, which should also make him comparable to her scaling:
Her power was able to move the Tower of Fate from the core of the planet at high speeds (1.3 Gigatons)
She was also noted to be the strongest mage and most powerful being in the Shovel Knight verse, which also makes her superior to:
Destroyed the transformed Mirror of Fate, which created and contained a pocket reality version of the Valley
Speed
Can maneuver around and move as fast as cannonballs, as seen above
Has kept up with and dodged attacks from Baz and Phantom Striker, whom are both capable of summoning cloud to ground lightning
He also scales to Shovel Knight, who was directly able to dodge said lightning (Mach 403.77)
Scales to The Enchantress, whose power was able to move the entire Tower of Fate up from the core of the earth in a short time (Mach 309.57)
Capable of moving as quick as light based energy orbs (0.63 c)
Durability
Can be underwater for long periods without needing to breath
Took hits from Baz, whose strikes were able to break apart the surrounding area
Can survive getting caught in bombardments from Propeller Knight’s fleet, which were strong enough to destroy the Glidewing
Notably, they could blast Mr Hat’s shop free of the ship, even when the wood within it was replaced by silver and gold (65.8 - 102.3 and 115.7 - 179.8 kilotons respectively)
Survived the destruction of Mirror of Fate’s world after the destruction of the Mirror itself (4 Petatons of TNT)
Big Jack Horner
Overall
Head of a feared crime gang and successful baking factory
Kept up in a fight with Puss in Boots & co
Chased them all the way to the Wishing Star
Had he gotten his wish, he would’ve drained all the magic from the world
Is an irredeemable monster
Power
The Trident was also noted to be capable of summoning enough rain to save a town from a drought (0:25)
While he could potentially be an unrelated figure to Poseidon considering the differing names, Neptune in an earlier appearance summoned a storm while wielding a similar trident
As he is able to keep up with Puss in Boots and others capable of harming him in a fight, and Puss is able to keep up with Shrek in a fight, Jack should be broadly comparable to other feats done in Shrek Media
Speed
As seen above, dodged an axe tossed at him, before jumping out of the way to avoid a giant flower trying to eat him
Kept up with Goldilocks and the Three Bears as they all dashed to the center of the star
Broadly comparable to other feats done in Shrek Media
Durability
As seen above, was hit in the back by Goldilocks and the Three Bears, which had enough force to break a stone wall and a door
Took a full force shove from an angry bear and recovered rather quickly
Broadly comparable to other feats done in Shrek Media
Puss can parry attacks from Dulcinea, who can cut rocks and make craters in a single blow
Shrek can tank Dragon’s fire breath, which can blast a pretty deep hole through a mountainside (87.27 - 752.74 kilotons)
Puss took hits from Tim, who can absorb and disperse a hurricane which covered a town (4.17 kilotons - 1.85 megatons)
Weaknesses
King Knight
As you may expect from a man who declared himself king without a kingdom, King Knight can be a bit haughty and egotistical, often underestimating foes due to his overconfidence. His ego has also led to him being a bit easy to manipulate, as seen when the Enchantress brought him to her side just by promising the kingdom he dreamed of. He’s also rather lazy and complacent in victory, as seen in him going from a badass leading an army in his own campaign to a silly relatively easy starter boss in the later stories. Finally, his heirlooms all run on a limited supply of vigor, meaning he has to be conservative with them, lest he lose access to their might.
Big Jack Horner
Jack’s most notable weakness is the fact he is incredibly arrogant and greedy, which has led to him underestimating foes in the past. His cruelty is also a bit of a double edged sword, as it’s caused him to do things that aren’t that practical, such as having very little care for his own minions to the point of indirectly killing them. Finally, while he is skilled with them, he’s also pretty reliant on his equipment, as he has little in terms of combat capabilities on his own, and as his usage of some of them indicates, he tends to not care about using them to their full potential, only as much as he needs to get what he wants out of them.
Before the Verdict
Wait, Shovel Knight is this strong?
Now you might be a bit surprised at some of the numbers that popped up for Shovel Knight stats here, especially if you’re mainly working under VS Battle Wiki. However, there’s actually plenty of reason to include these, which were mainly broken down by the G1^2 team here. While I do feel the explanations they provide are reasonable, in the interest of brevity and not wanting to just plagiarize their explanations, I’d advise to go give their blog a read if you want a more detailed breakdown, as this will be a more brief summary of their main points which are relevant to the discussion at hand here.
The various games are all canon to each other, as seen with this official timeline made by Yacht Club Games themselves.
While the exact method the earthquake Drill Knight caused is a bit unclear, any of the various explanations for how it was accomplished are all things the Enchantress should logically scale to.
While it also similarly a bit unclear how the tower was dragged from the core, the Enchantress’ power being the source of the feat is the logical conclusion behind it, considering the event is directly caused by her power being unsealed.
While Cardia could arguably push Shovel Knight into MFTL+ territory by virtue of hailing from a distant planet, the unclear timeframe of her journey and the fact she can teleport large distances means it’s a bit unreliable as a speed feat.
Multiple character’s endings for Showdown (including King Knight) seemingly establish the events of the game as being a dream, which seem to suggest that game to be non-canon. However, there are several instances of the events of the game impacting the events of the later stories, the game is fully acknowledged as a part of the canon storyline, and the idea of everyone getting sucked into a pocket dimension is hardly off brand for the series, which has multiple instances of similar events, so the events of the game are clearly able to be treated as at least broad strokes canon.
Additionally, while it is unclear which of the player characters were canonically the one to shatter the Mirror, all of the playable character’s stories end with them defeating the Mirror of Fate and surviving the same pocket dimension’s destruction and they all generally scale to each other, so he should compare to the feat even if he wasn’t the one to canonically do it. Additionally, he also directly survived a similar event at the end of Pocket Dungeon, meaning it’s pretty consistent.
Dragon Scaling
Now at first glance it might seem odd to say anyone should scale to Dragon’s fire breath, which was also my stance before I looked into it. After all, during their fight in the first film Shrek pretty consistently spent the whole time dodging. However, when you actually look into extended media, this idea actually becomes pretty consistently supported. First of all, just in the short the mountain blasting feat comes from, there’s a second stone dragon which is shown to be about equal in strength to Dragon. And Shrek was capable of overpowering this dragon’s fire breath on his own with a fart. Yes seriously. Secondly, there’s also multiple instances of Shrek being able to directly tank damage from these fire blasts in various game adaptations. And Dragon’s fire is pretty consistently in the form of a short burst in many of these, so there’s no reason to assume these attacks aren’t of at least similar strength to the blast that blew a hole in the mountain. Additionally, just through Newton's Third Law, being able to create these blasts means she should be capable of a similar level of force in her basic body attacks, which people have survived many times. Being able to physically overpower Dragon should also mean they’d be able to overpower this strength, which is something that Shrek and Fiona were able to do in the fourth film. As well as that, in the game adaptation of the third movie, Arthur took on an ice dragon on his own, and while there isn’t anything directly stating that one should scale to the main Dragon, the fact that even someone as dweeby and non combative as Arthur was able to keep up with one does add further weight to the idea that the cast is able to compare to the main one. Finally, there are multiple feats that are in the same range as this, so it’s also not an outlier to consider it scalable.
Death Scaling
Now I do think it’s fair to at least bring up Death’s physical feat of shattering the crystals, as it’s very in line with other stats from the series. However, some have suggested Puss being able to best Death in a duel should mean he’s able to scale to the abstract manifestation of death itself, meaning he has a massive amount of power. This blog isn’t going to accept that interpretation, because to be blunt, there is absolutely no supporting evidence to support the claim that he is a threat on this level. Simply being the grim reaper alone is far from enough to automatically make you that powerful, and as such assuming he’s this powerful is a massive stretch. And even if he was that powerful, the argument that Puss, and by extension Jack, should scale to his full level of strength is also somewhat questionable. While Puss did win a duel with him, after this he makes it clear that he would still likely be able to kill Puss, he’s just choosing not to continue the fight because he recognises Puss has learned his lesson in regards to wasting his lives. The bit of Spanish he says after the fact, which translates to “Why the hell did I go play with my food?”, also backs up this interpretation, as he’s directly stating he was only toying with Puss in their earlier confrontations. So no, Puss did not beat an abstract being physically, nor would he scale to one in any meaningful way.
Verdict
Stats
First off, since these two will be relying quite a bit on scaling to other characters for the higher ends of their stats, I should establish that both series should logically have all their main characters scale to each other. For Jack, he can keep up with Puss in a fight and others capable of harming him, and Puss is able to keep up with Shrek, which therefore means it’s reasonable to assume Jack compares to most feats in the Shrek universe that those two should compare to. As for King Knight, he was directly able to defeat most of the other members of Order of No Quarter over the course of his story, with the few he didn’t beat being bested by the other playable characters in their own stories. This would also include the Enchantress, as Shovel Knight was able to take her down on his own, and both Specter and Plague Knight were able to keep up with her in a fight much like how King Knight did. Add that to games like Showdown and Pocket Dungeon depicting the cast as equals in combat generally speaking, and there is plenty of reason to assume King Knight can compare to the other Knights and the Enchantress at his best.
With that out of the way, let’s get into power. Both verses are pretty commonly seen as being at least building level, but as the feat list has shown, there are many feats that can get stronger. For Jack, the best feats he can compare to would be from Shrek tossing Donkey to space, Dragon blasting a hole through a mountain, Tim dispersing a storm, and Posiedon/Neptune’s trident being able to summon one. The strongest of these feats, that being the storm dispersal, clocked in at 1.85 megatons, which is pretty good.
However, King Knight matches, surpasses, and ultimately eclipses these feats with several from his world. There are several kiloton level feats to match Jack’s higher ends thanks to the destruction of the Gildewing, the stalk growing to the clouds, Black Knight’s meteors, and potentially Plague Knight’s explosives. But there are multiple feats which blow this out of the water, including the Enchantress pulling up the Tower of Fate at 1.3 Gigatons, Drill Knight’s initial sinking of said castle at 4 - 137 Teratons, and him taking out the Mirror of Fate and surviving the destruction of its pocket reality version of the Valley, which comes in at 4 Petatons of TNT. This is also backed up by surviving a similar event at the end of Pocket Dungeon.
To put all that into perspective, Enchantress’s feat alone would be over 700 times greater than the peak of Jack’s strength. Now there are a couple arguments for Shrek characters getting planetary level, but regardless of their validity, these were typically done with the use of temporary amping through artifacts. As these amps were not something that was a part of Jack’s story, the feats would not be something he could scale to. Now you can arguably get Dragon’s feat even higher, by assuming she completely vaporized the hole through the mountain. I didn’t include this as I feel this assumption is a bit unfounded, due to the feat in question explicitly being a blast with some rubble visible, but even if you were to include it for the sake of the argument, this at best would get to 4.037 teratons, which matches the absolute lowest end of Drill Knight’s feat, but still about a thousand times lower than King Knight’s maximum. As such, King Knight is very solidly above Jack in power.
Now going over speed, there is quite a bit of contention with various vague speed feats for both universes. Both commonly have guys fully capable of dodging relatively slower projectiles like arrows and cannon balls, and can even get as fast as dodging lightning. At their peaks and giving both instances a similar amount of leeway, both have got scaling to moving in tandem with projectiles that are potentially moving at the speed of light. However, when you put numbers up for both instances, King Knight also is coming out on top, as he could move about 7 times faster than the best feat Jack could compare to.
So while they both can compare in a lot of their feats and are stronger than what you might expect, King Knight’s peaks in both power and speed are greater than those which Jack should be comparable to.
Arsenal & Abilities
Now in terms of their respective arsenals, both have quite a bit to go over with their wide amount of magical artifacts. They both have a healthy mix of ranged options of multiple types and melee weapons for getting up close, and they are both fully capable of swapping between them on the fly. Now Jack does have a clear edge in that he possesses several haxier weapons in the Midas Touch and Baby Unicorn Horns, which are both capable of taking King Knight out regardless of the stat gap by turning him to gold or confetti. He also doesn’t have to worry about limited vigor for them unlike King Knight, so he’s able to be a lot less conservative in using them.
However, King Knight also has several advantages when you break down his own arsenal. For one thing, he’s the only one of the two who has options for healing, thanks to the Healing Hammer, Decree of Rejuvenation, and his tears, along with potentially recovering vigor with the Vestments of Vigor. He also has far better mobility capabilities, as while Jack does have access to options granting him flight, he never actually uses them or shows much skill in their use, meaning King Knight is more likely to be the one to outmaneuver. Finally, King Knight also has a haxy advantage of his own in the Turn Coat, which is capable of absorbing and redirecting projectiles, meaning that a ranged battle is more likely to come in his favor rather than Jack.
This is a pretty big issue for Jack, as a lot of his more notable weapons are ranged, and he doesn’t really have a good counter for ranged attacks himself. Though both do have the speed to easily dodge many of each other’s attacks, so this battle is more likely to come down to a more up close fight. And that would also prove an issue, as unlike King Knight, many of Jack’s options for up close fighting are just basic melee weapons with no implied powers. One exception to this would be the Trident, as it does hypothetically offer a lot of control over water and the weather, but much like his flight methods, Jack has never used it in such a way personally, so this would be hard to use as a wincon.
The other exception here would be the Midas Touch, which as mentioned could likely end the fight if Jack manages to use it on King Knight. However, there are a couple issues with it. For starters, he’s never actually used in an active fight like this before, meaning it’s not exactly going to be something he can easily do. Secondly, it seemingly would require contact with skin to end the fight, which is something that would be a bit difficult on someone surrounded by armor even without the stat gap. Finally, while you could argue the armor itself being transmuted would transfer it to King Knight, considering the armor already appears to be gold and Jack doesn’t exactly have the skill to recognise that, it would be likely that he believes the armor is gold and therefore would be unaffected by transmuting, and as such not even bother trying to use it.
Jack is also the only one of the two with potential forms, but neither would be that helpful in swinging things in his favor. The shrink potion is practically useless, and while growing to a giant size might seem like it’d even things out, there’s not really anything to suggest the power growth in strength would be anywhere close to the amount needed to match King Knight’s peaks. And even if it was, he’d also be too big to use any of his weapons besides his fists, as well as be making himself a significantly easier target to hit to the point where his reaction speed hardly matters. So going giant would effectively do nothing but seal his fate.
Finally, to discuss their respective minions, while King Knight does have a wider selection of rats and summons with a wider variety of skills and they are definitely more of a help than the Ethical Bug, they likely wouldn’t be as helpful as the Baker’s Dozen, given they all show some skill in keeping up with Puss themselves, and many of these smaller minions being easily defeated regardless. Though Jack is the only one of the two to actively be a bad boss to the point of killing his own men, meaning it’s still likely going to come down to a one on one between the bosses at the end of the day.
Tertiary Factors
In terms of experience, while it is a bit hard to break the two down, King Knight does slightly edge out in my opinion. He has a better on screen track record in that we’ve seen him take on a wide variety of opponents, and while Jack had been the head of a criminal organization for years before The Last Wish, it’s also implied he spent much of that time behind his minions. Along with that, Jack is a lot more reliant on his equipment, whereas King Knight has ways of fighting without them.
In terms of general battle intelligence though, that is a bit trickier. Jack is undoubtedly the more bloodthirsty and mature of the two, and is a lot more likely to go for a kill when he has the opportunity. However, he does have a tendency to let his cruelty overwhelm pragmatism, and some of the more potentially useful artifacts in his arsenal he seems to not care to use to the fullest potential. You already saw that with the aforementioned trident, and the same goes for stuff like his wand or Excalibur.
Though King Knight is also not exactly that clear cut in this category. While he was able to defeat the Order of No Quarter in his own campaign, he’s still very childish and lazy, and many of the later games timeline wise portrayed him as more of a joke in comparison to the others. That said, his track record does still stand as a testament that he can be just as skilled as his comrades if the situation calls for it, and regardless of his competence he still has a massive enough stat lead that it’s unlikely to be too much of a hindrance.
One last possibility to bring up would be Jack manipulating and tricking King Knight into some sort of trap. While his campaign’s finale does show King Knight can be manipulated pretty easily, meaning this kind of stunt would be something he would fall for, Jack still doesn’t have a solid way of actually capitalizing on it, since as mentioned his haxes are too slow to reliably hit King Knight and not something he’s actively used in a fight respectively, and King Knight would be unlikely to give a chance for a second trap to be sprung. So while this could hypothetically give Jack a way to win, it’s pretty unlikely in practice.
And finally, just for posterity, if this were to allow King Knight relics from DIG, this would become far more clear cut for him. Not only would this definitely give him the versatility edge by far, he’s outright capable of stopping time with the Chronos Glass, which would basically be game over for Jack the second it’s activated.
Conclusion
Advantages:
Far stronger and faster with better mobility
More skilled as a fighter and with his equipment
More versatile at close range, and can shut down long range with Turn Coat
Has healing options
Disadvantages:
No resistance to Jack’s haxier weapons
Less bloodthirsty and kind of an idiot
Help isn’t as useful
Still lives with his mom
Isn’t a real king
"Well, you know what they say. Can't bake a pie without losing a dozen men.”
Advantages:
Has haxier weapons which could take out King Knight if given the chance
More bloodthirsty and ruthless
Help is more useful in a battle
Puss in Boots: The Last Wish animation
Voiced by John Mulaney
Disadvantages:
Far weaker and slower with Inferior mobility options
Less skilled as a fighter and with his equipment
Not as versatile in close range, and ranged options are hard countered by Turn Coat
No real healing options
Going giant would just make him more vulnerable in practice
Ruined Jurassic Park 3 by suggesting the T-Rex was a scavenger
These two do certainly have a variety of factors to discuss, and Jack’s ruthlessness could definitely net him the win if given the chance. However, King Knight’s superior physicality, greater experience, and more useful arsenal ultimately mean he’s my pick to come out on top. Unfortunate for poor Old Jack Horner, but we must now pronounce this battle: Finished.
The winner is King Knight
Next Time
Toko Fukawa vs Seven
(Danganronpa vs Scissor Seven)
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