Liquid Snake vs Zeke Yeager (Metal Gear vs Attack on Titan) VS Prediction Blog

  “You and I are opposite sides of the same coin. When we face each other, we can finally see our true selves. There may be a resemblance, but we never face the same direction.” - Pixy

Liquid Snake, the duplicitous clone brother leading FOXHOUND from Metal Gear.
Zeke Yeager, the wielder of the Beast Titan and Marley’s Warrior Squad from Attack on Titan

War is brutal, uncaring, and something that can embitter even the most idealistic man. For these two, however, it seemed baked into their blood from their births. Made as part of government programs at a young age, these two would grow up to be cold, ruthless, and having a disdain for their very bloodlines due to their fathers, which led to them becoming heads of a conspiracy to change the world in ways they saw fit. However, these plans ultimately led them into coming into conflict with their brothers, at which point their paths diverged after a defeat to their plot. With their respective elite squads serving as backup, which of these blonde’s bloodlines can prove to create the superior commander? 

Before We Begin

First off, SPOILER WARNING. This will be going over a lot of the story for both series with open discussion of a lot of their major plot points. That goes double for Zeke in particular, as by his nature as a character there will be a lot of open discussion over late series plot twists and reveals for Attack on Titan, so consider this your warning to step out if you need it. Also, content warning, as AoT has plenty of instances of gore and body horror which will be brought up in relevant clips. 

This match will be using all reasonably canon material for both characters. For Liquid, this will include the original game series, the Twin Snakes remake, other spin-off games, and the comic adaptations. For Zeke, this will include the original manga, anime, and any game adaptations that are in line with the main series’ continuity. This will not include more blatantly incongruous entries of both series, such as the Metal Gear Ac!d duology or the various gag spin-offs of Attack on Titan, nor will it include any crossover scaling, ranging things you may be familiar with like Smash Brothers, Fortnite, and Dead By Daylight, to more obscure instances like Snake crossing over with Ape Escape or that time Titans fought the heroes of Marvel Comics. 

Additionally, since both characters are pretty reliant on what point in the timeline they’re in for what they have to work with in terms of support, I feel that element is worth a bit of clarification. For Liquid, this will be using him from the time of the original Metal Gear Solid, so there won’t be any help explicitly exclusive to his attempt at making an island nation as a child or any of the weird things Ocelot did after taking his arm. For Zeke, this will be looking at his original squad that was sent to Eldia, so there will be none of the younger recruits or allies he received from after the time skip. This is mainly just in regards to the team lineup, there will be equipment from other points in their timeline included, as long as it could be seen as reasonably standard to them at their peak.

Background

Liquid Snake

“We're losing our place in a world that no longer needs us. A world that now spurns our very existence. You should know that as well as I do. After I launch this weapon and get our billion dollars, we'll be able to bring chaos and honor back to this world gone soft.”

In 1972, a top secret government project known as Les Enfant Terribles was put into action. The goal of this project was to take the DNA of Big Boss, the world’s greatest soldier, and create a clone of him to act as his successor. From this project, 2 boys were born. One of them was named David, and he would receive all the dominant genes, being prophesied to ultimately save the world. He would grow up to take the codename Solid Snake, becoming a legendary stealth operative and the man who would seemingly kill Big Boss. However, the other son had received all the recessive genes, and was prophesied to instead lead the world into ruin. His name was Eli, and he would grow up to take the codename Liquid Snake. 

Young Eli was initially sent to England to grow up there, as the ones who had created him were intending to use him as insurance against Big Boss. However, Eli would end up learning of his nature as a clone and would run away at the age of 7 while his handlers were visiting Africa, at which he’d end up becoming the leader to a mercenary militia made up of child soldiers, earning the nickname White Mamba in the process. Come 1984, Eli’s group would end up in conflict with the Diamond Dogs, led by a man he believed was his father, Venom Snake. While their goal was to take the kids and reeducate them, Eli refused to cooperate, still feeling hostile to the man he saw as his father. While this was happening, Eli ended up catching the attention of a young psychic boy, who would connect to Eli’s lust for revenge. Using his talents, Eli would escape from the Diamond Dogs with an experimental machine known as Sahelanthropus, and would attempt to take his allies to start a nation on a small African island. However, due to Venom Snake’s intervention and an outbreak of a vocal cord parasite, Eli was forced to flee, swearing revenge on his father.

Liquid would grow into an adult, becoming a valuable operative in the British Special Air Service and later being recruited by the US Government. However, things would change as, in the wake of an incident in Zanzibar, Big Boss would be seemingly killed in action by Liquid’s brother, Solid Snake. With his lust for revenge now seemingly destined to be unfulfilled, Liquid would instead turn his anger on his brother, feeling resentment towards the one he felt had robbed him of everything. This all came to a head when, on February of 2005, Liquid and several associates in an American Black Ops team known as FOXHOUND would end up taking over a nuclear weapons disposal site in Alaska known as Shadow Moses Island, which had been testing a new weapon of nuclear warfare that was known as Metal Gear REX. Liquid would take hostages and threaten the US government with nuclear strikes if his demands were not met: that being the corpse of Big Boss. In response, the government had sent Solid Snake on a covert mission to resolve the incident. 

However, Liquid had planned for this, and had a plan on how to deal with his brother. Through various conflicts on the island, Liquid would send many of his men to deal with Snake, only for him to blast through all of them. While this was happening though, Liquid had been plotting, and thanks to disguising himself as one of Snake’s contacts, he would manage to trick Snake into activating Metal Gear REX for him. In a final confrontation, he’d reveal his connection to Snake, and would explain his true motive: to give soldiers a purpose to fight again amidst a world that had tossed them aside for peace. The Twin Snakes would duel each other, with Solid Snake ultimately coming out on top. While Liquid would attempt to kill him in a final gambit, he would ultimately succumb to his injuries and a virus that was in Solid’s body known as FOXDIE, ending his life.

Liquid’s influence would attempt to live on in spite of his death. Later, one of his subordinates who had survived the incident, Revolver Ocelot, would end up being possessed by Liquid’s spirit due to replacing his lost arm with Liquid’s. This allowed Liquid to influence some events involving Arsenal Gear, but ultimately, Liquid’s spirit would be exorcised by Ocelot himself. As it turned out, Ocelot had been playing him, as he had actually been working on his own plot to destroy the secret organization that had created the two in the first place, The Patriots. This was all done under the will of the man Liquid hated the most, Big Boss, who had also secretly been alive to help this plot from the shadows. And in perhaps the most damning move, Liquid had been lied to about his cursed genes, as he was actually the one who had received the dominant genes all along, not Solid Snake.  

While Liquid Snake’s lust for revenge was ultimately fruitless, his legacy was one that certainly lived up to the legend his genetics left for him. Whether it’s as a child, adult, or spirit in an arm, Liquid’s cunning and sheer force of will makes him a dangerous foe for anyone to face. There may be a killer inside all of us, but Liquid was created to let this killer run free. 

Zeke Yeager

“It isn't your fault that we were born to that disgusting monster of a man. We are but pitiful victims. However, I had another father. one who rescued me. You needed someone to rescue you as well. I swear I will not abandon you. I will use the power of the founder to fix you.”

Long ago, the world lived in fear of the Eldian Empire. It was far reaching and threatened many of the world, with their people being able to turn into terrifying giants known as Titans. However, this empire ultimately collapsed after a great war, at which point their king took his people to Paradis Island, at which he’d use the power of the Founding Titan to trap them within the walls and wipe their memories to keep them isolated from the outside world. However, the empire had descendents outside of the walls, who would quickly become vilified by the governments of the world, becoming second class citizens kept in internment zones by people viewing them as devils. 80 years later, in the year 825, Zeke Yeager would be born in one of these internment zones within the nation of Marley. 

Zeke would grow up in a rather troubled situation, as his father, Grisha Yeager, was more focused on working with a rebel group of Eldians to try and overthrow the government than raising his son, and he ultimately sent Zeke to be a member of the Marleyan Military to act as a spy. Zeke would be drafted into the Warrior Squad, a group that used the power to transform into a Titan to fight in Marley’s wars, and would be trained as the next successor to wield said power. While there, Zeke found a new father figure in Tom Ksaver, who was the wielder of the Beast Titan. Finding a sense of family that he lacked at home, he’d end up reporting his parents’ rebellious activities, leading to them to be executed on Eldia. However, Zeke did believe in his father’s want to free Eldians, though his own idea on how to free them. Being filled with hatred for his race, he felt the best way to free them would be by using the power of the Founding Titan to sterilize the Eldians and prevent them from reproducing, mercy killing the race in a relatively peaceful way and bringing peace to the world without Titans.

As such, after inheriting the power of the Beast Titan, he’d put into motion a plan to get access to the Founding Titan. He’d first send several of the younger members of the Warrior Unit on an infiltration mission to Paradis. Within the walls, the people had grown to believe the world had ended due to an infestation of Titans, not knowing they were really fellow Eldians who had been forcibly transformed. These recruits would end up blending in as citizens inside the walls, and they would end up joining the military of the Walls while secretly looking for the Founding Titan. 5 years after they were sent there, Zeke would make his way into Paradis himself, hiding amidst the wild Titans of the area. He’d find that his infiltrators had ended up being found out, and he would quickly come into conflict with the Survey Corps and their most valuable asset, which was a boy named Eren Yeager who was able to transform into a Titan himself.

As it turned out, Grisha had not been executed, but rather was able to make his way into the walls after getting the Power of the Attack Titan. Not only did he meet a new wife and have a son with her, but he was also able to take the power of the Founding Titan as well, after which he would pass on the power to Eren, leaving him to be a hope for the Eldians. Naturally a bit shocked at this revelation, Zeke would end up fighting the Survey Corp and attempted to talk his half brother to his side, thinking he was also a victim of their father. However, he was ultimately forced to flee Paradis after the Survey Corp managed to defeat his forces, allowing them access to information that exposed them to their true place in the world as well.

4 years later, after ending a different war, Marley would end up being attacked by soldiers of Paradis, who intended to strike back against the Warriors and a world that saw them as devils. Zeke would seemingly end up captured in the scuffle and brought to Paradis, but unbeknownst to the ones who had captured him, he had allowed himself to be captured and be brought back to the island. After escaping custody, he’d attempt to meet with his brother, as meeting with the wielder of the Founding Titan would allow him to activate his goal. While many in both nations would attempt to stop them, Zeke would ultimately successfully meet with Eren, and thanks to Zeke possessing Royal Blood from his mother, the brother’s plan came to fruition.

Eren and Zeke’s spirits were then brought before Paths, which is where all the Eldians potential for Titan shifting was drawn from and where they all were connected. His goal within his reach, Zeke would prepare to use the power of the Founding Titan to accomplish his goal. However, Eren had other ideas, as he would instead use his control of the Founding Titan to begin the Rumbling, in which he’d march on the world with the power of the Titans to kill everyone that would wish to do harm to Paradis, which was, well, the entire rest of the world. Zeke would fall into despair at his plan failing, with his body becoming dormant as a part of this apocalyptic event as the controller of the Titans marching. He’d then end up meeting with an ally of Erens who had also been consumed, and during a conversation with him, he’d ultimately come to realize his nihilism had blinded him to his true feelings on life. Though Zeke’s road to hell may have been paved with good intentions, these had been twisted by his experiences, shaping him into someone with no regard for life in spite of his wish to save it. Zeke mustered enough will to force his body out of Eren’s, making himself vulnerable for Eren’s former allies that were trying to stop the Rumbling. After lamenting the path that had brought him here, Zeke would be decapitated, ending his life and stopping the Rumbling in its path. 

While Zeke’s plan ultimately failed, he had still transformed himself from a child living in walls to a soldier dangerous enough to break any down. Whether you happen to be an enemy to his nation or an obstacle to his goal, there’s no chance he’ll see crushing you as anything less than the natural result of a world so cruel. 

Intelligence & Skill

Liquid Snake

Liquid has a rather notable history as a combatant. Even as a child, he was already able to far outpace any other child soldier, and he was able to keep up somewhat with adult soldiers like Venom Snake. When he was older, he fought in the Gulf War as a teen, and infiltrated the Middle East as a sleeper for the SIS. He became a POW during conflict in Iraq, before ultimately joining the Special Forces Unit FOXHOUND after Solid Snake had left it. Being selected to be a part of FOXHOUND means every member has been through rigorous amounts of training and is considered to be the best of the best in terms of soldiers. 

Liquid is also rather intelligent, having an IQ of 180 and being fluent in 7 different languages. The group he led, consisting of multiple soldiers with their own histories of military experience and who are also about this smart, were able to successfully take over Shadow Moses Island, which is a top secret military outpost. All of them were also able to keep up with Solid Snake in a fight, and Liquid himself was able to duel him equally in a one on one fight. Snake at this point had managed to single handedly resolve the incidents of the original MSX games, destroying 2 different Metal Gears and seemingly killing Big Boss himself. 

Zeke Yeager

Zeke is a rather intelligent fighter, having been trained as a part of the Marley military since his youth over a twenty year long career. He and his team have managed to get the better of multiple Survey Corps members who were specifically trained to kill Titans, and he was able to soundly defeat the Armored Titan in a fight. He’s also done plenty of research on how Titans function, which in addition to his access to the memories of his predecessor, another notable Titan researcher, he has been stated to have more knowledge of Titans than the entire government and military of Marley does.

When fighting, he can be rather ruthless, deducing weaknesses and taking advantage of them. During the battle for Shiganshina, Zeke utilized his command of the Titans to cut off the Corps’ escape route, with intention to wait them out in a siege if needed. He’s also been able to utilize underhanded methods, such as tricking a regiment of soldiers guarding him into drinking wine that was spiked with his Spinal Fluid, giving him the ability to turn them to Titans and escape. After the timeskip, he was able to manipulate the Yeagerists into cooperating with him to try and get the chance to meet with Eren and enact his plan, which ultimately only failed because Eren opted to use the power for his own goals.   

Equipment

Liquid Snake

Knife

Liquid has used a knife for more up close confrontations. While he has only used it as a child, I don’t really think it’s much of a scratch to assume Liquid would carry one as an adult or have access to a similar one. 

Guns

• FAMAS Rifle - Standard issue rifle for Liquid’s many goons, this is a 5.56 mm rifle which Liquid utilized during the final jeep chase of MGS. 

• Assault Rifle - Presumably something he used at some point in his past, which as far as I could tell he’s only been seen using in concept art. 

• Pistol and Rocket Launcher - He had these as accessories in an action figure. Dunno if that should count but I wouldn’t say it’s that unbelievable for him to have access to them so I’ll just give it to him. 

Flashbang

As a child, Eli utilized these which can explode to blind foes.  

Petrol Bomb

Another throwable weapon Eli utilized, which is a makeshift fire bomb that can explode when tossed at something. 

Jeep

In the final sequence of MGS, Liquid drives a jeep in pursuit of Solid Snake, attempting to gun him down along the way. It also has a machine gun mounted on the back that someone riding on the back could fire. 

Helicopter

Another vehicle Liquid piloted is a Mi Mi-24 helicopter, also known as the Hind-D. This comes equipped with a machine gun and a lot of missiles, and has the durability to tank multiple rocket launcher strikes. Liquid was also able to fly effectively enough to take down 2 jets. Somehow.

Metal Gear REX

A prototype of the titular Metal Gears created by Hal Emmerich aka Otacon, which was the main goal of Liquid for starting the Shadow Moses Incident. This is a 505 ton walking tank with armor made of Laminate/Steel that is impervious to all of Snake's conventional weapons, and which is controlled from a cockpit in its “nose”. Its main function is launching nuclear missiles via a rail gun which fires them at 1000 m/s, and it can carry up to 8 of them at once. It also has a variety of other weaponry to use for more conventional battle, including machine guns, radio guided anti-troop missiles, and a Vulcan laser cannon. It can also use its legs to stomp on foes. 

During the events of MGS4, Otacon would end up repairing it and upgrading it with several systems. However, given this was after the time period I’m looking at, those upgrades will not be included here. The Metal Gear REX also has a major weak point in the radome, which is the circular device opposite to the rail gun and is the housing for the navigation systems. Should it be destroyed, the pilot will be forced to retract the armor around the cockpit to pilot it manually, which naturally leaves them very vulnerable.

Zeke Yeager

Rocks

Thanks to his sheer size, Zeke can find it difficult to use more technical weapons while in Titan form. As such, he opts to go for the simpler method of just tossing rocks at foes. Zeke is actually a fairly good pitcher, and he’s shown surprising versatility in tossing the rocks, whether that be tossing them long distances to block exits, cracking them into smaller chunks as a makeshift mortar strike, or lobbing them at close distance as a more focused attack. 

Artillery Shells

When rocks aren’t enough to do damage, Zeke has also opted to chuck piles of artillery shells at foes, which are also rather effective. 

Spinal Fluid

Taken from Zeke’s spine through unknown methods, this fluid can, upon entering the body of any Subject of Ymir, infect them with the capability to turn into a Titan. Unlike the standard Titan serum, which acts immediately, this stays in their body dormant until Zeke screams within range, at which point they will be transformed into a Titan he can control. This has been weaponized as a gaseous form and as a hidden poison in wine, and it’s likely possible it can also be administered through injection like the standard Titan serum. However, that’s only if it’s in a Subject of Ymir. Anyone else being exposed to it will be unaffected. 

Guns

As Zeke is a major military commander, he should likely have access to the standard firearms of the Marley military. This consists of a variety of World War 1 era guns, including revolvers, submachine guns, bolt action rifles and water-cooled machine guns. While these firearms aren’t effective in dealing with Titans, they are rather deadly in the use of more conventional warfare.

Vertical Maneuvering Equipment

Not precisely something exclusive to Zeke himself, but given most of his support has access to it, I feel it’s worth its own section here. Also referred to as Omni-Directional Mobility gear in the anime, this is equipment developed by the military of Paradis designed for combating the Titans. This is able to propel people around using a combination of steel wires and jet engines to help outmaneuver the slower movements of the Titans. While they don’t offer too much in terms of defense, the sheer mobility they grant makes their users practically untouchable as long as they have room to move. 

Ultra Hard Steel Blades

The other notable part of the arsenal of a Survey Corp member are these blades. Created from an extra sharp material, these blades are specifically designed to slash into the skin of Titans in order to kill them. However, their sharpness also means they can be rather brittle, as they can be dulled or broken rather easily upon hitting harder surfaces, which is why soldiers carry up to 6 pairs of replacement blades they can swap to if needed. 

Abilities

Liquid Snake

Enhanced Genetics

As previously noted, Liquid is a clone made as part of the Les Enfants Terribles, a top secret project helmed by the Patriots designed to create a clone of the greatest soldier that had ever lived, Big Boss. As part of this experiment, Liquid and his brother were each modified to consist of Big Boss’s dominant and recessive genes respectively, though Liquid had been made to believe he had received the recessive genes due to Big Boss’s influence. Thanks to this, Liquid has an enhanced superhuman level of strength, speed, and endurance, which Liquid had shown even as a child, and it’s been implied that also gives him a level of natural aptitude in fighting.

Possession

Liquid Snake wasn’t quite gone once he had been killed. After Ocelot replaced an arm he had lost with one from Liquid’s corpse, he would end up being possessed by Liquid’s spirit, who would override his psyche as a sort of second personality during the events of MGS2. However, Ocelot would later exorcise the spirit by replacing the arm with a mechanical one, and then implanting a false personality version of Liquid in himself through hypnosis for complicated reasons. While there have been some details suggesting Liquid was only able to do this due to Ocelot being connected to the spiritual world through his father, The Sorrow, there is a possibility that Liquid would be able to possess anyone who attempts to do something with his corpse. 

Resistances

• Given he rather literally has the same body as Big Boss and Solid Snake, it should stand to reason Liquid would be able to resist the same things they naturally have:

• Mind Manipulation - Snake was able to resist Psycho Mantis’ mental attacks, and Big Boss has resisted Gene’s mental attacks.

• Electricity Manipulation - Snake endured prolonged electroshock torture and Big Boss survived shocks from Volgin

• Radiation - Snake survived prolonged exposure to a hallway of microwave emitters, and Big Boss had been an atomic test subject in the past.

• Sleep Inducement - Big Boss resisted the effects of The End’s sleeping darts.

• Extreme Cold - All the genome soldiers that were a part of the Shadow Moses Incident were injected with Antifreeze Glycopeptide, which prevented them from freezing to death in the sub zero Alaskan conditions. 

Zeke Yeager

Titan Shifter Physiology

(note: “Titan Shifter” is technically just the fan term for people with this power, but given the term is so ubiquitous in fan discussions I’m sure this might be the first you’re hearing of that fact, and the alternative terms are far more loquacious, I’m just going to use it for the sake of clarity)

Due to having consumed the previous wielder of it, Zeke is able to call upon the power of the Titans to transform into one of the 9 Intelligent Titans. To transform, the shifter must suffer an injury that draws blood while fixated on a specific goal, at which point they’ll be engulfed in a bout of energy that can cause damage to the area as the Titan’s body grows around them, leaving them “piloting” the body from within its neck. They can also be summoned partially. The shifter is able to leave the Titan body through either consciously exiting it or being ejected after the form hits its limits, though the latter will also give the human a level of fatigue. These forms can take a toll on the human after repeated use, with overuse leaving them exhausted for days afterwards. Other general abilities this gives access to includes:

• Regeneration: Titan Shifters are able to regenerate wounds done on their bodies as long as they keep the will to live, which can even include injuries as severe as lost limbs and partial decapitation. However, recovering from more extreme injuries can strain their powers and prevent them from transforming, and enough damage will overtax their regeneration, leaving them vulnerable. The only surefire way to put down a Titan Shifter is by severing the brain's connection to the rest of the body, which will kill them for good. 

• Power Bestowal: If a normal Titan happens to consume a Titan Shifter’s human form, they will inherit the power of said Titan, reforming back to their original human form in the process. If a Titan Shifter dies without being consumed, their power will instead be given to a different random Eldian when they’re born.

• Memory Inheritance: Titan Shifters are also given access to the memories of anyone who previously wielded the power. These can be activated by interacting with things important to their previous life, and they seemingly manifest in the form of dreams of this past life. This ability is notably stronger if the wielder happens to possess a blood relation to their predecessor, letting them remember for generations. 

Zeke’s Titan is the Beast Titan, a 17 meter tall Titan named due to taking the appearance of an animal rather than a human like normal titans, which in Zeke’s case is a large ape. Beyond the general abilities mentioned above, due to possessing royal blood on his mother’s side, Zeke is able to make full use of the power of the Titans. This allowed him access to the ability to create and control Titans, which will be gone over in more detail below, and would be able to give him full access to the power of the Founding Titan, though this would obviously be hard to do in the middle of an active fight.

Hardening

Worth its own section is this ability, which any Titan Shifter is able to do with enough practice. By focusing on a specific part of their body, crystals harden over it. This not only covers the part in a layer of protective crystals that at its strongest only the power of the Jaw Titan can break, but can enhance the strength of blows done with that part of the body, or even form claws to climb with. 

Also yes that gif is from a Roblox game, the actual reason this is a separate section is because I saw it while looking up gifs and wanted an excuse to use it.

Titan Creation & Control

Zeke’s most notable ability is in his ability to create and control the less intelligent Pure Titans, which he received from his royal blood and is an imitation of the Founding Titan’s ability to do the same. By screaming, Zeke can transform any Subject of Ymir who’s ingested his spinal fluid into a Titan. He is able to control the actions of Titans created with his scream, directing movements and commanding them to attack. Titans under his control are also able to move during moonlight, something that normally makes them immobile. However, the control isn’t completely flawless, as some have disobeyed his commands in the past, and the scream itself has a limited range, with those outside of said range only getting an odd feeling when he screams. 

Comrades

Liquid Snake

Revolver Ocelot
(Revolver Ocelot)

"The world today has become too soft. We're living in an age where true feelings are suppressed. So we're going to shake things up a bit."

Originally a Russian commander who ended up betraying that country for his own goals (which he has done quite a bit), Revolver Ocelot is a man who has had quite the complicated history that I’m not going to go over since he’s not the main focus here. To be brief, he’d end up allying with Liquid due to having respect for the man he was cloned from, though that didn’t stop him from betraying him later like the rest. He’d also lose his arm, replace it with one from Liquid’s body, and then end up getting possessed by Liquid’s spirit through his severed arm. He’d then exorcise the spirit and instead use hypnosis to fake being possessed by the time of the 4th game, in which he’d die.

To get back on track, as you might expect, Revolver Ocelot’s main skill in a fight is in the use of his revolvers. Inspired by American cowboy media, Ocelot shows great proficiency with his revolvers, not only showing plenty of flashy spin tricks, but is also able to utilize ricochet shots effectively, and has enough precision to shoot a bullet to ricochet around a hostage that was surrounded by wires. He’s a master ot torture and interrogation methods, and is skilled enough in hypnotism to implant entire new identities in people. He’s shown the skill to keep up with Raiden in a fist fight, and he’s even shown off fourth wall awareness.

Also he can do this, which I’m sure will be very useful.

Psycho Mantis

"Humans weren't designed to bring each other happiness. From the moment we're thrown into this world, we're fated to bring each other nothing but pain and misery. "

Perhaps the most odd of Liquid’s associates is this powerful psychic. Originally hailing from a small Soviet village amidst the Cold War, his father’s resentment of his budding psychic power led to him inadvertently burning the village to the ground after losing control of his abilities. He’d end up becoming a soviet child soldier, where encounters with Venom Snake led to him meeting a young Eli. Connecting to the young man’s resentment to his clone father, he’d end up allying with Eli’s cause, being one of his longest standing allies thanks to this. During adulthood, he’d end up becoming an interrogator for the FBI, but a delve too deep into the mind of a serial killer ended up leading him to him adopting the killer’s psychosis, making him a far less stable person who was only still loyal to Liquid to get the chance to kill people. Which sucks for anyone forced to take him on, as he has a rather wide range of abilities:

• Levitation: He’s able to lift himself and others to fly around

• Telekinesis: He can lift and throw objects with his mind, which can include things as small as parasites that were in Eli’s vocal cord and as heavy as the massive Metal Gear Sahelanthropus 

• Energy Projection: He can create and launch a ball of psychic energy at foes

• Telepathy: He’s able to read people's minds and learn about their pasts

• Mind Control: He was able to brainwash dissenters from the Genome Army into joining Liquid’s cause

• Body Puppetry - He was able to directly control the actions of Meryl, and was able to move her body while she was unconscious to try and force her to kill herself. 

• Forcefield Creation: He can make barriers to protect himself 

• Illusion Creation: He’s able to make himself look like other people, make paintings look like they’re laughing, and make people think they’re burning alive

• Invisibility - Has optic camouflage that allows him to turn invisible 

• Intangibility - Has shown the ability to phase through bullets and walls

• Teleportation - Has suddenly appeared and disappeared from nothing

• Limited 4th Wall Awareness - He’s able to read the data card of the player’s console to tell how well they’re doing and what other games they’ve played, make them think their console turned off, and make their controller vibrate. However, these powers don’t work on a console that doesn’t have those functions, and it’s a bit unclear if this is an actual canon ability to break the 4th wall or simply a meta way of portraying his ability to read minds. 

And even if you somehow manage to kill him, that might not be enough to stop him. In MGS4, through some unexplained method, his spirit ended up somehow getting harnessed by Screaming Mantis, a member of the Beauty and the Beast unit. He was able to control the other members of the Beauty and the Beast through his psychic powers, with him somewhat merging with SM to grant her psychic control over anyone with nanomachines. After her defeat, Mantis would end up manifesting and attempted to possess her armor for a rematch with Snake, but then the Sorrow showed up and made his soul go to the afterlife forcibly. I have no real idea how applicable any of that is to a fight, but it is a hypothetical possibility. 

It is worth noting that there has been some material suggesting you can break out of Mantis’ mental attacks if you simply have a strong enough will, but it is a bit unclear if this is how Snake resisted the effects as opposed to simply having a resistance to the mental effects.

Also he might be able to time travel given his adult form showed up in Ground Zeroes for a weird cameo but I have no fucking idea what this even is or if it’s even canon so I’m just going to ignore it.  

Sniper Wolf

"I was born on a battlefield. Raised on a battlefield. Gunfire, sirens, and screams... They were my lullabies..."

Not at all related to certain modern creators, Sniper Wolf is an Iraqi-born soldier who grew up in a warzone and joined FOXHOUND after the death of her savior Big Boss. As her name implies, she’s an incredibly skilled sniper, not needing a spotter and is able to accurately hit shots with surgical precision despite being in the middle of a blizzard. She’s adept at working solo to the point where she can lie in wait for days and even weeks without moving until her target is dead. She also has keen enough senses to detect people’s breathing when they’re invisible while using stealth camouflage, and is so good at stealth that Snake initially thought she was using stealth camouflage herself.

Vulcan Raven

"Ravens aren't scavengers like most people think. They're simply returning to the natural world that which is no longer needed. Sometimes they even attack wounded foxes."

Born of Inuit descendance, Vulcan Raven was born possessing shaman intuition and spiritual powers, and would grow up to become a mercenary, who would end up falling into FOXHOUND thanks to meeting with Revolver Ocelot. He is incredibly strong, able to run around with a massive minigun and its ammo drum without a shirt in Alaska, and he initially was seen driving a more standard tank. He also seems to have some sort of weird shaman magic, as he can communicate with a flock of ravens which follows him around, and can summon a spiritual raven from his head tattoo which can immobilize foes with “the mark of death”, during which he can seemingly detect who your ancestors are? Thanks Kojima, very cool.  

Decoy Octopus

"He drained the Chief's blood and took it into himself. But he wasn't able to deceive the Angel of Death."

Born in Mexico, not much is known about this man’s past. What is known is that he is a master of disguises, able to alter his voice, appearance, and mannerisms to perfectly imitate people, even going as far as injecting himself with their blood to imitate their DNA. He’d end up meeting with Snake disguised as the DARPA Chief he was sent to rescue, and fed him misinformation to trick Snake into activating the machine. However, he then ended up dying of a heart attack brought on by Snake’s FOXDIE virus, so It’s unknown if he has any particular skill in combat. 

Genome Soldiers

Liquid’s main group of mooks at the time of the Shadow Moses Incident, who opted to work under Liquid through a combination of loyalty and brainwashing. These were a secret group of soldiers, who were given a level of genetic enhancement to mimic the genes of Big Boss, though not to the same extent as Liquid and other clones. While their total numbers are a bit unclear, they consist of Chemical warfare troops, Light infantry, Arctic warfare troops, and Heavily armed troops, and were equipped with a variety of firearms and protective equipment. 

Zeke Yeager

Reiner Braun

“I don't know what's right anymore. But the only choice for me now... is to face the consequences of my actions... and as a Warrior... fulfill my duty to the bitter end!”

The most prominent member of the Warrior Unit, who along with several allies who will be gone over below, ended up going within the Walls and keeping themselves hidden among the ranks of the Survey Corps. Reiner was one of the top 10 best graduates, and is rather skilled in the use of the VM gear and in hand to hand combat, which he can utilize within his Titan form. That being said, he’s not a perfect soldier, as he does suffer from a possible dissociative identity disorder and PTSD from his experiences. 

Anyways, Reiner’s Titan form is the Armored Titan, and as you may expect from the name, it comes covered in a massive armor that covers all parts of his body besides areas needed to move. This armor has shrugged off everything from artillery fire to full punches from the Attack Titan, and he’s able to harden it at will to increase defense at the cost of agility. He’s also shown the ability to come back from decapitation by transferring his mind to the rest of his nervous system, but this can be risky as it leaves his body vulnerable as it heals.

Bertolt Hoover

“I feel like, no matter how all this plays out, I can accept whatever happens. That's right, nobody's in the wrong. There's nothing we can do. Because this world is just that cruel.”

Another member of the Warrior Unit to join the Survey Corps, Bertolt is also a skilled warrior with the VM gear, and he was able to kill a small Titan without the use of it at all. He’s rather quiet and prefers to follow popular opinion to not stand out, and while he does have some emotional issues, he has learned to try and keep his emotions under control in a fight, viewing warfare as just an inevitable part of the world. 

Bertolt’s Titan form is the Colossal Titan, and as you might expect from the Titan that’s become the face of the franchise, it’s a force to be reckoned with. Not only is it one of the tallest titans in the series at an imposing 60 meters, but it’s one of the strongest, able to easily kick a hole in the Walls. It’s size does mean it can’t move very fast, but it can defend itself against more agile opponents by emitting steam, which is hot enough to start house fires and sear flesh, and can be useful as a smokescreen in case a quick escape is needed. The form can also be dissipated far faster than other Titan shifters, as seen above. 

But perhaps the most devastating ability of the Colossal Titan is its transformation blasts. All titan shifters end up creating a blast energy when transforming, but thanks to this Titan’s sheer size, these blasts can end up creating blasts that are incredibly powerful, to the point where they’ve outright created a mushroom cloud at points. These blasts can be very devastating to any unprepared opponent, and Bertolt seemingly has enough control over it to only create wind blasts, which is all the more effective to keep the Titan’s presence hidden until it’s too late.

Annie Leonhart

“I didn't used to care about anything. But it's different now. I think I've committed irredeemable sins… But. if it meant I could return to my father… I'd do it all over again.”

The final member of the Attack Squad to join the Survey Corps, Annie Leonhart was also one of the most skilled of the Corp. She’s got enough skill with the VM gear to effortlessly kill Titans despite being inside, and kill skilled soldiers who are also equipped with it. Her true skill, however, is in martial arts, with a unique style taught to her in brutal training by her dad. This form has a strong focus on minimizing the advantages of larger, stronger opponents through kicks, throws, and holds, which she’s able to use most effectively within her Titan form. 

Annie’s Titan form is the Female Titan, which has the main attribute in it’s agility and endurance, able to run long distances and shift out of the form with less of a need to rest than others. She’s also able to scream and control Titans herself, though it is more limited than Zeke’s control, as she seems to just be able to summon them to her location. She’s also rather skilled in the use of hardening, able to make a shell around her human self hard enough to keep her contained for several years. Finally, it’s also noted that her form would be able to take on the abilities of the other intelligent Titans should she consume them, though she never really got the chance to show this off in canon.

Pieck Finger

“I don't trust Marley. I pray that Eldians will be freed. But I do trust those who've fought beside me!”

The last notable member of the Attack Squad which will be brought up here, Pieck didn’t play a role in the initial infiltration of Eldia, but rather came as support to Zeke in the final battle before he was forced to flee. She’s rather odd, preferring to walk on all 4s like her titan form to walking around normally, but she’s able to quickly get a read on situations and is very loyal to Marley in the hopes of her people being freed. 

Pieck’s titan form is the Cart Titan, which is uniquely quadrupedal and possesses an unusually high level of endurance. Not only has she been able to stay in the form for months at a time, but she’s claimed to be able to transform hundreds of times without needing rest. This does come at the cost that her regeneration isn’t as powerful as the other Titan Shifters, as a critical injury can leave her vulnerable for longer than them. 

She’s also been outfitted with armor to have her act as a walking tank if need be. One of these is the Panzer Armor, a heavy machine-gun armament which allows soldiers to fire at foes from her back in an armored position, though their position can be compromised by a precise enough sniper. The other major one is the Anti-Titan Armor, which is less an armor and more a fucking artillery cannon that she straps to her back. This cannon is an improved version of anti-Titan cannons that launch 150 mm armor-piercing shells which were able to blast through the Armored Titan’s armor, and her own cannon was able to threaten the Attack Titan and blow up several houses. Though this cannon does take time to reload between shots.

She also has a submarine armor which I’m sure will impact the verdict significantly.

Pure Titans

"That day, the human race remembered: the terror of being dominated by them, and the shame of being held captive in a birdcage."

Zeke has also utilized the help of less intelligent titans in his plots, which he is able to control thanks to his abilities. Titans take the form of large humans that look deformed, mainly because they all happen to be Subjects of Ymir who were forcibly transformed. Their bodies are actually fairly light and they can be rather mobile, yet in spite of that their bodies do not take in energy, as they don’t need to eat, drink, or even breathe to live. Instead, while people they eat will be digested, they’ll instead need to upchuck the corpses in their stomach once they’ve had their fill. They’re also mindless beasts that are rather easy to trick and outmaneuver, but they are relentless in trying to kill humans, and only them. They also have no reproductive organs, so they can just exist indefinitely. They’re also able to regenerate from any wound, but they will die permanently if the area on the back of their neck is destroyed. They also seem to need sunlight to move, as they tend to go into a immobile state if deprived of it. 

They also apparently smell really bad.  

Marleyan Military

The main armed forces of Marley, whom Zeke acts as a leader for. Zeke’s main fighting force is working with enlisted Marleyans, who are typically trained with the standard WW1 era skills. Several members also act alongside the Titans in the field, most notably the groups manning the Cart Titan’s various armors. Zeke’s also worked with the Airborne unit of their Air Force, who drop paratroopers of Marleyans that Zeke can transform into Titans and can cause plenty of chaos. 

Feats

Liquid Snake

Overall

• Became the leader of FOXHOUND

• Founded the Kingdom of the Flies after escaping Mother Base

• Took over Shadow Moses Island 

• Killed Master Miller and perfectly pulled off a disguise of him

• Fought equally with Solid Snake

Power

• Can hurt Snake with his strikes and hit him hard enough to send him flying 

• In a cross counter with Snake, they were able to generate a small shockwave

• Psycho Mantis has been stated to be one of the strongest psychics in the world, putting him on par with those able to cause natural disasters 

• Metal Gear REX is able to launch nukes at hypersonic speeds (2.007 Kilotons)

• The nukes themselves are AGM-129 ACM cruise missiles, which can have an explosive yield of 5 - 150 kilotons

• (Nothing that isn’t REX should scale to this)

• After being repaired, REX was able to keep up with Metal Gear RAY

Speed

• Can fight on equal footing to Solid Snake

• Somehow shot down jets while piloting a helicopter

• Revolver Ocelot was able to react to electricity fired by Volgin (Mach 17.34)

• Mantis can psychokineticlly block gunfire

Durability

• Can take hits from Solid Snake

• Survived this pretty long fall, which he claimed to be long enough to kill Snake

• Got bombarded with multiple rockets 

• Was fine after being in Metal Gear REX as it blew up

• Survived being stabbed through the chest with debris

• Walked off getting in a violent car wreck 

Zeke Yeager

Overall

• Became the leader of the Warrior Unit

• Major asset for the Marleyan Military

• Killed many members of the Survey Corps

• Wiped out the Mid-East Union naval fleet

• Crucial to Eren Yeager’s ultimate plan

Power

• In human forms, they can spar with and harm other ODM gear wielders

• Threw a horse hard enough to wreck part of a house

• Can easily tear apart Pure Titans

• Was able to break the Armored Titan's armor

• Using shells, he blew up a fleet

• Can toss rocks at supersonic speeds (0.44 tons of TNT)

• Casually pulverized a boulder (0.59 tons)

• The Cart Titan’s panzer cannons can gib people in a shot

• The Cart Titan’s Anti-Titan Cannon can shoot through the Attack Titan’s head

• Pure Titans are able to make holes in a building (0.096 Tons)

• The Armored Titan made a hole in Wall Maria (0.23 tons)

• The Colossal Titan was able to kick a hole in Wall Rose (1.95 tons)

• The Colossal Titan is able to create massive blasts while transforming (25 tons) 

• 1.567 - 2.312 kilotons for the anime version

• (These feats are something only Bertholt should scale to)

Speed

• 3D Maneuver Gear allows users to move at 101 m/s, which the Titan shifters have all reacted to

• The Beast Titan can toss rocks hard enough to make a sonic boom (Mach 1)

• The Female Titan could run fast enough to overtake horses

• The Armored Titan could as well

• The Cart Titan attacked Levi fast enough that he barely dodged

• Pieck ejected herself from her Titan body fast enough to dodge the Jaw Titan, who can dodge artillery fire

Durability

• In human form, they all can scale to being able to withstand the forces of using and landing on hard surfaces while using ODM gear (324.38 - 484.55 kilojoules)

• Survived getting sliced apart by Levi Ackerman

• Survived a thunder spear explosion in human form, though he was brought to near death

• The Armored Titan can tank artillery fire

• The Armored Titan tanked a punch from the Attack Titan

• Annie and Reiner were able to stay alive through all this

• The Female Titan survived getting slammed into a church (0.034 tons)

• Reiner survived being in range of Armin's final transformation (72.86 tons)

Scaling

Liquid Snake

Solid Snake 

Every member of FOXHOUND is able to keep up with him in a fight, and Liquid himself not only fought him on equal footing, but is quite literally a genetically superior clone to him. As such, he should scale to Snake’s feats. 

• Was able to escape Outer Heaven’s destruction (Mach 2.95)

• Kept up with Grey Fox, who can block bullets (Mach 2.15)

• Dodged a tank shell

• Can dodge close range gunfire

• Was able to dodge a railgun shot from Crying Wolf (Mach 30.88)

• Survived walking through a hallway while being constantly bombarded with microwave radiation

Big Boss

As Liquid is a genetically superior clone of Big Boss, is comparable to Ocelot, who kept up with him many times, and was able to fight evenly with Solid Snake, the guy that ultimately killed him (sort of), he should be comparable to his scaling as well.

• Survived shocks from Volgin, who is able to channel up to 10 million volts (23.55 tons)

• Was able to defeat The Boss, who survived a spaceship crash

• Was able to halt the kinetic energy of Cocoon (0.828 Tons of TNT) 

• Likely comparable to Venom Snake, who was meant to be a body double of himself

• Survived being in a tank as it explodes (0.371 tons)

• Scales to Quiet, who can dodge gunfire with her arms bound

MGS2!Raiden

During the events of his original game, Raiden ends up fighting equally with Solidus Snake, who is another clone of Big Boss that was genetically identical to the original, meaning Liquid should likely be comparable to him, and by extension Raiden. 

• Superior to the Tengu Commandos, who can block bullets (Mach 1.81 - 8.92)

• Can block bullets from multiple directions at once (Mach 82.82 - 165.65) 

• Dodged a railgun round from Fortune (Mach 229.45)

MGS4!Raiden

Separate section for this version of him, as this will require a bit more of an explanation. Now first off, Snake in MGS4 should solidly downscale from this version of Raiden. To break down by how much, let’s use a common robotic enemy of this game, the Gekko units. Old Snake was able to briefly hold back one Gekko physically and is generally able to keep up with them in combat, suggesting he could scale to each of their individual strengths at his best. This is important as 4 of them working together were able to restrain this game’s Raiden, which suggests that Snake should be about a quarter as strong as Raiden in this game. Liquid should be comparable to this, as Snake was well past his prime in this game. 

That’s just in regards to the human characters, but I also believe it can be reasonable to scale Raiden’s full strength to the Metal Gear REX. During the events of MGS4, REX gets repaired, and was able to defeat Metal Gear RAY. The only upgrades REX was given for this fight was getting a “Street Fighter” program to use its legs to fight, so it’s likely the original REX would be able to recreate this victory. The Metal Gear RAY is a superior machine to the Gekkos which restrained Raiden, and RAY was later able to keep up with Raiden at the beginning of Metal Gear Rising, before he received the upgraded body he had for most of that game. Now in that instance Raiden was obviously ultimately superior, but this gives enough reason to assume a standard RAY unit could scale to his best feat from MGS4, given he wasn’t in peak condition for that feat. Said feat is:

• Was able to physically stop the momentum  of Outer Haven, a massive warship (156.78 Tons for Raiden, 39.195 Tons for each Gekko)

• Arsenal Gear, a warship which Outer Haven was modified from the same type as, was able to crash into and destroy a portion of lower New York City, which Outer Haven’s kinetic energy could possibly scale to (859.16 tons for Raiden, 214.79 tons per Gekko)

Zeke Yeager

Eren Yeager

At multiple points, Eren, while using the strength of the Attack Titan. has shown himself to be capable of fighting on par with the Warrior Trio, so the group as a whole should likely scale to his feats. 

• The Attack Titan can run at speeds of 88.50 m/s

• Was able to form his Titan body fast enough to block a cannonball (Mach 4.25)

• Survived getting punted by the Colossal Titan (0.137 tons)

• Survived getting slammed by the Armored Titan hard enough to collapse a house (0.154 - 0.516 tons)

• Shrugged off being smacked by the Female Titan hard enough to collapse a building (0.69 tons)

Armin Arlert

Armin’s main relevance here is in the fact he’s the later possessor of the Colossal Titan. He has utilized the form’s powerful transformation blasts at several points, and isn’t really acknowledged as being superior to Bertholt in his use of the form, which suggests Bertholt would also be able to recreate blasts this strong. 

• Armin’s transformation into the Colossal Titan was able to destroy an entire fleet  (157.5 kilotons)

• Armin’s final transformation blast was able to cause this large explosion (524 Kilotons - 1.16 Megatons) 

Levi Ackerman

The strongest member of the Survey Corps and kind of Zeke’s kryptonite. Not only are Titans generally superior to normal humans physically, but basically all the Titan Shifters have dealt with other wielders of the ODM gear that are on par with him, and several of the Titan Shifters have shown to be able to keep up with his movements and take hits from him.

• Dodged multiple bullets from the Anti-Personnel Control Squad (Mach 1.92)

• Also survived a thunder spear explosion, though he was also heavily injured 

• Due to being an Ackerman, has the strength of the Titan

• Knocked over a Titan just by kicking it

• Should be superior to the AoT2 Player, who survived this explosion caused by Annie transforming which killed several other Survey Corp members

Rod Reiss

The King of Eldia, who ended up transforming himself into a Titan after Eren stole the power of the Founding Titan. This form was rather powerful, but it’s worth pointing out he wasn’t actually one of the 9 Titan Shifters, just a rather large Abnormal Titan. While the Survey Corp did struggle to deal with him, that was mainly due to his body’s heat production and size rather than him being abnormally powerful (no pun intended). Additionally, Eren was able to survive the same blast that knocked him down and Historia was ultimately able to kill him using just the standard issue Titan fighting equipment, which gives credence to the idea that he wouldn't be considered to be too strong to compare to the Titan Shifters. 

• Let off enough heat to passively set trees on fire (7.52 tons)

• Collapsed a large cave (59.76 tons)

• Was potentially projected to be able to destroy part of Wall Sheena (233.71 tons)

Weaknesses

Liquid Snake

Liquid himself has an incredible inferiority complex due to his false belief in his genetics being inferior. He has a need to prove himself as superior in spite of them, and he can easily turn to anger towards those who he feels disrespect him. Beyond that, his genetics also have a bit of a failsafe in that he’ll start aging at an exponential rate after he reaches the age of 40, though obviously that would be a bit hard to reach naturally unless the fight is dragged out for decades. 

Also despite how much his genetics motivate him, he has no idea how they work. Though to be fair, neither does the series. 

Zeke Yeager

Pure Titans and Titan Shifters both share the same weakness in that, should the area on the back of their neck be fully destroyed, they will end up dying without the chance to regenerate. While some of the Shifters have used hardening to protect this spot, they’re also unable to maintain these Titan forms indefinitely, and their regeneration can be overtaxed with enough damage. Additionally, anyone who inherits the power of the 9 Titans will also be affected by the Curse of Ymir, which means they’re fated to die 13 years after they inherit the power, with their body weakening over their final year until they perish. Similarly something that’s unlikely to come up unless the fight lasts over a decade, but it is still a factor. 

As for Zeke himself, while he is a brilliant tactician, he also is rather overconfident and tends to underestimate foes, which has led to him getting caught out by skilled opponents like Levi, and his Ape Titan form isn’t suited for direct close quarters combat, being more used to fighting at a range. He also lacks much notable experience fighting outside of the Titan form.

Before the Verdict

Metal Gear Rising Scaling

Ah yes, everyone’s favorite Metal Gear game. And sometimes the only one they acknowledge. Now, obviously the physical limits of this game are extreme even by the standards of this series, and given its status at the end of the timeline, it would make sense for no one from the earlier eras to scale to it. However, some people have argued there is a way for Snake to scale to it, which I’ll go over. First off, Raiden mentions Snake in one of the codec calls, during which he states that he’d consider Snake “one of the greatest soldiers I've ever seen” and that he thinks “No one can stop him.” Given this was during a private and fairly casual codec conversation, there’s not really any reason Raiden would have to lie in this situation, meaning he could be speaking literally in this instance. The other point would be in regards to Mr Weakest Brazilian Male, Jetstream Sam, who was a mercenary at the time that Solid Snake was active and considered the greatest soldier. This is important as, unlike the other cyborg bosses of the game, Sam was confirmed to be mostly human physically speaking beyond a metal arm, and there’s no mention of him being augmented through nanomachines or something similar either. So this gives credence to the idea that Solid Snake, and by proxy Liquid, could be comparable to Sam, and by proxy the other MGR era characters.

However, there are a couple issues in this argument in my opinion. First off, just to clarify, despite its massive popularity, Revengeance is not actually one of the mainline titles, but officially goes under the “questionably canon spin-off” category, as this article breaks down in more detail. This means that for characters who are not part of that game, including details exclusive to it can get a bit weird. Admittedly not the biggest issue in the world for this blog since it does include such games, but that’s the main reason most matches that aren’t someone from MGR don’t tend to even bring it up. Secondly, in regards to Raiden’s comment, being “the greatest soldier” isn’t necessarily indicative of raw power, as it could refer to Snake having the most successful missions, the most confirmed kills, the most impressive accomplishments in terms of impact, or any number of things besides just being the strongest. In fact, the very statement by Raiden where he says this is prefaced by him clarifying that he considered Snake to be one of the greatest soldiers “in terms of pure combat ability”, which would imply Raiden is referring to his general skill more than his literal strength. And as far as the “no one could stop him” thing goes, given the clear past tense of the topic and Raiden’s clear hero worship of him, that doesn’t necessarily mean he would literally be unstoppable to stuff like what Raiden is dealing with. As for Sam scaling, besides the aforementioned issue of assuming the title was through strength, to scale Snake to his later feats would be assuming Sam in the 2000s would be as strong as he was about a decade and a half later, while in a period far before cyborgs like Raiden and Desperado became the common wagers of warfare in the series. There’s other arguments like his suit potentially giving him a boost that’s comparable to the suits of several MGS characters, but there’s really not much suggesting this to be true besides “they look the same”. Also just to bring it up, while a Metal Gear RAY popped up for a fight in Revengeance, it was a fight at the start of the game Raiden was clearly dominating in, and it was before he got an upgraded body for the rest of the game, so REX should not be scaling to this game either. 

Where Jaw Titan?

The Jaw Titan has kind of an odd history of getting popped around between people through the series, having initially been possessed by Marcel Galliard, before that was unintentionally passed on to Ymir, who was then captured before being passed on to Porco Galliard during the time skip, and later went to Falco Grice during the final arcs. While it is technically an asset Zeke should have access to, personally I don’t think there’s a solid argument for any wielder of it to be included in this hypothetical fight. To go over said issues:

• Marcel Galliard - While he was initially the original wielder of it which came to Eldia alongside the rest of the team, the fact he died long before the main time period of the series means I feel it’d be a bit awkward to try and shunt him into the team, especially given he is basically featless. 

• Ymir - The main wielder of it for the time period which everyone is generally being put here. That being said, I don’t really see a reason to consider her an ally of Zeke, given she’s a wild card that only temporarily teamed up with the other Attack Squad members once out of convenience, and she’s never even interacted with Zeke when she was alive. 

• Porco Galliard - He wouldn’t get access to it until after the time skip, meaning he’s not being considered for this.

• Falco Grice - Same issue as Porco, along with not really being an ally of Zeke at the point in the story where he ends up getting access to it. 

As such, due to those aforementioned story issues, along with not really adding too much for the discussion anyways, I’m opting not to include any wielder of it for the debate here. Ymir is based though. 

Verdict

(music)

Stats

When it comes to power, neither group is too out there, as you would expect given both are from pretty grounded worlds. On the lower end, both had plenty of instances of surviving damage at the lower end of the building range, and were certainly far stronger than an average human.  Though the Titan Shifters all generally had more impressive displays of physical strength, as most people in Metal Gear don’t tend to punch buildings apart on the regular. When it comes to the consistent numbers everyone on the team should scale to, the strongest displays Team Liquid could get would be Big Boss’s shock torture from Volgin at 23.55 tons and downscaling from Raiden holding back Outer Haven at 39.195 tons. However, Zeke’s team was able to surpass these numbers thanks to scaling to Reiss collapsing a cave at 59.76 tons and Bertolt surviving Armin’s final transformation at 72.86 tons, giving the Titan Shifters a 1.85 times strength advantage. Not a gap that’s too large that FOXHOUND couldn’t keep up, but a gap in their favor nonetheless. 

There are two major feats that were above this level, with them being scaling Outer Haven to Arsenal Gear’s city wrecking and Reiss’ projected destruction of Wall Sheena respectively. Though there are some issues with these particular feats that make me question fully using them. With the former, while Outer Haven was stated to be modified from the same class of warship as Arsenal Gear, there’s not really anything outright stating the modifications that were made to Haven made it stronger in terms of ramming strength, and the instance of Raiden stopping it had it moving slower than it was when Gear rammed into New York. As for the latter, the calc is reliant on taking a visualization that was brought up alongside someone projecting what Reiss’ Titan would do and using it as a literal display of the Titan’s strength, and the fact it later opts to climb a wall rather than smash it down does cast doubt on it breaking the wall being something it was going to do. There’s also consistency issues with both feats being a bit above other feats for the series, but if you give an equal amount of leeway, I feel both should be on the table. This does close the gap in strength a bit from 214.79 tons vs 233.71 tons, with the Titan Shifters’ AP edge getting bumped down to a more marginal 1.08 times in their favor.  

That being said, there were also 2 major assets of each of the teams which possessed methods of destruction that were far above their general scaling, those being REX’s nukes and Bertholt’s transformation blasts respectively. To clarify right off the bat, these are both things only these two should scale to, as no one else on either team shows anything anywhere close to the ballpark of these attacks. I also feel both of these feats aren't things that either should scale to in durability, as REX is only launching the nukes and was made far before Metal Gears that were implied to be able to survive nukes, the Titan transformation blasts are always portrayed as far stronger than normal strikes and is implied to not impact the Shifter at the center with its energy, and both instances would end up creating a litany of narrative inconsistencies and plot holes if you were to assume the characters could naturally tank the full force of these attacks, which indicates that’s not likely not the authorial intent. 

Moving past that and going back to comparing numbers, REX is able to scale to Raiden’s full stopping power at 156.78 - 859.16 tons of TNT, and it’s launching power was 2 kilotons strong, which are both slightly below Bertholt’s best direct instance of blasting at 1.567 - 2.312 kilotons. Though the higher number there was calculating how strong the nuke’s launch is, meaning this amount of energy would only be impacted on someone getting physically hit with the missile itself, not its blast. Using the actual IRL missiles as reference, said blasts could range anywhere from 5 - 150 kilotons in strength, which at its highest would be significantly above Bertholt’s blast. However, Bertholt is able to surpass even this by scaling to Armin’s later blasts. While these blasts are significantly stronger than Bertholt’s, which might suggest he shouldn’t scale, not only did Armin possess the Collosal Titan for less time than Bertholt and is never really stated to be more skilled in its use than him, but we know for a fact that Bertholt is able to control the size of blasts at will, as seen in the many instances of him appearing on the Walls without creating nukes after transforming, so it would be consistent with his powers for him to be able to create blasts stronger than what we’ve seen of his direct feats. As such, not only would Bertholt be able to match the power of even a 150 kiloton nuke thanks to Armin’s 157.5 kiloton fleet destruction, but scaling to Armin’s final transformation of 524 Kilotons - 1.16 Megatons would put him anywhere from 3.5 - 7.73 times more powerful than REX’s nukes. Rather big point in favor of Team Zeke, but it’s worth pointing out that, while both attacks would definitely be able to wipe out the entire opposite team if given the chance, they’re also strong enough to wipe out their own teams if they happen to also be caught in them, so neither are really an instant win condition and would need to be properly utilized with strategy.

As for speed, that was a far more clear cut comparison. Both teams had plenty of instances that put them at low mach speeds for movement and attacking, and had good options for mobility thanks to Liquid’s vehicles, Mantis’ flight and the VM/ODM gear. However, reaction speed painted a very clear picture. The best feat Zeke’s team could scale to in this category would be Eren’s reaction to a cannon shot at Mach 4.25. However, there were many Metal Gear speed feats that eclipsed it. Not only did they have more consistent displays of bullet timing, but Ocelot’s direct instance of electricity timing comes in at Mach 17.34, which is about 4 times faster than Eren, and that was more a mid level feat. The most impressive speed feats they should scale to would be from MGS2!Raiden, who at best was able to dodge a railgun shot at Mach 229.45, which is about 54 times faster than Eren. And even if you think Raiden’s faster feats are questionable, they should also reasonably scale to Old Snake’s own railgun dodging at Mach 30.88, which is about 7 times faster than Eren’s feat and is still comfortably in the blitzing range. So the edge in speed is on the side of FOXHOUND.

To sum all that stuff up, both teams are at an overall equivalent level in their general AP and Durability, with Team Zeke having a slight edge which can widen or shrink depending on what ends you opt to use. Both have access to powerful attacks far above each other’s stat lines, with Betholt being the strongest fighter on the field in terms of AP even with REX’s nukes, but both aren’t exactly instant win options and no one besides them scale to these levels. And while they also have equivalent movement and attacking speed, reaction speed comfortably goes in the hands of Team Liquid, with their scaling to multiple railgun dodgers giving them a significant edge in that camp.

Arsenal & Abilities

When comparing the two commanders on their own, Liquid definitely had a wider variety of effective equipment. His variety of guns and explosives gave him plenty to take out soldiers, the flashbang in particular would be good for disorienting any foe that tried to attack him, and the jeep and helicopter would be good options for keeping him mobile. And the effectiveness of Metal Gear REX is pretty obvious, as its variety of weaponry and strong stats would make it very effective in dealing with a lot of his opposition. Meanwhile, Zeke’s main weaponry was, well, rocks, the spinal fluid would be fairly situational, and the other equipment were things he had access to but hadn’t really used much himself. The one bit of Zeke’s equipment that would be very good was the shells, which would certainly be able to cause a lot of damage quickly, but like Berolt the area of effect would also put his allies at risk. As such, the arsenal category would go to Liquid. 

When it came to their more inherent powers, though, there really wasn’t much question Zeke had Liquid beat. Liquid’s genes certainly put him above the lackeys and possibly even the Titan Shifters’ human forms physically, but his resistances weren’t for things anyone on Team Zeke would be using, so they wouldn’t be coming into play. And his possession was incredibly unlikely to be a factor, as not only is it a very situational power and it’s unclear if he can immediately come back as a spirit the second someone attached a body part to themselves, but the Titan Shifter’s regeneration meant they would have no reason to graft a part of him on themselves in the first place. On the other hand, said regeneration combined with his ability to harden to form defenses meant that Liquid would have an issue figuring out a way to take out Zeke’s Titan Form, especially since he’s from a world where Titans don’t exist, meaning he wouldn’t be aware of their weak spot on the back of their neck. And there is of course the obvious disadvantage in him having to fight a giant ape that’s like 10 times his size. 

That being said, Zeke’s most notable ability, his creation and control of Titans, would be rather hard for him to fully capitalize on. There was of course the earlier point on him trying to infect people with the spinal fluid would be hard to pull off in the first place, as most of his methods of infection were rather situational, but the bigger issue would be an issue inherent to him fighting someone that wasn’t from his world. While it was likely he might be able to turn his own men to Titans, the fact that the creation of them is explicitly tied to being a certain ethnic group, that being an Eldian/Subject of Ymir, meant it was not going to be possible to turn anyone on Team Liquid to a Titan, as they obviously would not be a member of a group that does not exist in their world. And it is an explicit limitation in his own story, so there would be no reason to just assume any member of Liquid’s squad would be affected by this, let alone Liquid himself. 

If there were going to be a one on one fight between these two, there’s a couple ways I can see it ending. If Liquid’s in Metal Gear REX, then the fight is pretty clear cut in Liquid’s favor, as not only does it possess a wide assortment of weaponry over Zeke’s rocks and fists, and scaling to Raiden fully makes it way stronger than Zeke, but Zeke would be unlikely to take advantage of it’s weakness in the radome, as he likely wouldn’t be able to intuit the weakness due to REX being far ahead of his world technologically, and he wouldn’t have a way to learn it naturally either, given even Snake only learned about it because the guy that built it directly told him about it. If Liquid doesn’t have REX, he’d still likely have a vehicle that he can use to get around Zeke, and he could then use a rocket launcher or grenade to attack Zeke’s weak point. Though this would be reliant on him learning of said weakness, as if he doesn’t, then he wouldn’t know he’d have to do this and would therefore be stuck until Zeke manages to land a lucky blow. And well, if Liquid was stuck on foot then he’d most likely die. While they would have similar strength (weird to envision a normal guy having similar strength to a giant ape but fiction is weird), Zeke’s slight edge there combined with his sheer size meant he’d be able to overpower Liquid and deal with him, and in this situation Liquid just wouldn’t have the mobility to dodge for long. 

Comrades

Now the last section was mainly going over the two commanders, but of course, neither of these two are going in alone, as they are being given access to their respective squads. Starting from the lowest tier, while the Genome Squad was likely going to be a bit outnumbered, they were generally a lot more skilled and capable than the average Marleyan foot soldier, along with the obvious advantage guys with modern day equipment would have over soldiers from WW1. Though realistically this entire battle wasn’t going to hinge on which of the two’s cannon fodder was better, as both of their main attacking forces would be more than enough to deal with them. About the only people on this tier I could see impacting much would be the crews of Pieck’s armors, but someone like Revolver Ocelot or Sniper Wolf would be more than precise enough to wipe them out before they can accomplish much.

Moving on to the more notable combatants, while FOXHOUND likely had a more versatile set of abilities as a unit, most of them weren’t going to be as effective when trying to deal with the Warrior Squad. For starters, the fact a lot of them mainly fight using guns will be an issue, as even the basic Pure Titans have repeatedly been shown to not be bothered by basic gunfire. This would be very bad news for Wolf and Ocelot in particular, as they are very reliant on their gunplay. The only one of the gun wielders I feel this wouldn’t really apply to is Vulcan Raven, as his minigun would likely be powerful enough to shred through standard Titans, and he does have a tank, but the Titan Shifters would probably give him a bit more trouble.

Additionally, some of their more notable skills on their team, such as Ocelot’s hypnosis or Decoy Octopus’ disguises, are implied to take some time to pull off, meaning it’d be hard for them to try and utilize in the middle of a fight. This meant Octopus was basically dead weight, as he had no known combat capabilities, and it also meant Ocelot would be struggling to impact much either, as his main bread and butter was gunplay which wouldn’t be impacting much besides the cannon fodder. Sniper Wolf would also be struggling to impact much, as while her stealth skills would likely help her stay under the radar for a while, she wouldn’t be able to take out any of the Shifters and she doesn’t have the mobility to get away if one of the Titans manages to catch her. The only one who really has notable skills that would help was, again, Raven, as his weird paralyzing bird would certainly be effective at keeping any foe vulnerable, and his crows might help with keeping track of the battlefield. However, it would be an uphill battle given he’d really be the one forced to carry the guys on his level.

Now to go over what the Warrior Unit brings, and, well, a lot of it would be the same as what Zeke brings. They’re large enough to easily crush a lot of people, can regenerate from most harm, and could harden their skin to defend themselves if needed. They’re not as overall versatile as FOXHOUND, as most of them didn’t really have unique abilities that would impact a lot, but their sheer size means they’re going to be causing a lot more destruction on the foes than what most of FOXHOUND can. This meant most of the opposition would be hard pressed to even approach them in Titan forms, as they could easily get seriously hurt with any strike, and things like Bertholt’s steam emission would also cause massive damage to foes in a large area. And even outside of their Titan forms, while they would likely not be as strong as them, the sheer mobility offered by the ODM gear meant they’d be untouchable to any basic bullets, and the fact their blades are able to harm Titans meant that if they got close to anyone they’d be sliced apart. 

However, you might have noticed I brought up “most” a lot and I failed to mention one particular member of FOXHOUND, Psycho Mantis. And that’s because he is by far the most dangerous fighter here. To the point where his existence kind of breaks the debate, as he alone would be more than enough to counter basically any strategy of Zeke’s team. For starters, his telepathy would allow him to learn their game plan and directly predict their actions whenever he wanted. His ability to fly, make illusions, and turn invisible meant he’d be exceptionally hard to track or catch, and his ability to make barriers, teleport, and make himself intangible combined with his reaction speed edge meant he’d be practically impossible to hurt in the first place. In terms of his offensive options, his telekinesis being strong enough to lift Sahelanthropus meant he’d be able to easily ragdoll any of the Titans, his precision with said telekinesis meant he would instantly end any ODM shenanigans and could conceivably just rip the Shifters out of their Titans, and his ability to brainwash and directly control actions of people meant he would easily be able to either turn the Titans on each other or make them take themselves out, as none of them have shown a real resistance to getting their minds messed with in this way. 

There is the argument that his telepathic abilities could be rendered ineffective if his subject has enough of a strong will, but not only is it a bit unclear if that’s why Snake resisted it, that’s far from a foolproof defense in this situation. I could see Annie, Pieck, and Zeke himself being able to successfully resist it if this is a way to counter it, as all three are pretty driven individuals. On the other hand, there’s two characters I feel will be very likely to not be able to resist it. The first would be Reiner, as he does have plenty of mental issues and doubts that could likely make him very susceptible, and if you consider he’s one of the more experienced Titan Shifters in terms of direct combat, he could be tricky to deal with if he turned against people. Though since Zeke has beaten him down in the past, it’s likely he wouldn’t be too hard to deal with in practice. 

But there’s another member who would be even more devastating to brainwash. I’ll give you a hint: it might be the guy who’s described himself as a coward, was hesitant to go through with his betrayal of the Survey Corp, has been driven to visible panic in stressful situations, and even after learning to keep his emotions in check, was still reduced to a panicked wreck when he was about to be eaten by Armin. This is the man that also just so happens to be the guy that can make explosions that could kill his entire team if it goes off at the wrong time (like, say, him suddenly turning against them in the middle of a fight), and he is very likely to become the prime target of Team Liquid once anyone learns of his destructive blasts, (like, say, a guy reading his team’s minds). Yeah, while Bertholt would be a game winning factor normally, Mantis directly turns him into Team Zeke’s biggest liability, as he would certainly be able to kill or critically injure every other member of his team in a single blast. And even if by some miracle the team manages to escape his blast or take him out before he has the chance to use it, they’d still likely be scattered with no game plan and have lost perhaps their most valuable player and biggest chance of winning. 

That’s before mentioning that Mantis’ intangibility meant he was the only person in the battle who was practically guaranteed to be able to survive this blast besides Bertholt himself. And his telepathy also meant he would also be able to easily learn the Titan’s weak spot, at which point he could relay it to anyone with explosives and let them know where to aim at, negating the biggest issue with actually putting the Titans down. And that is all before mentioning that even if they do somehow manage to kill Mantis, he might just come back as a ghost and mess with them while in a spirit that they wouldn’t even be able to touch. Or he could maybe even time travel back to the start of the fight and end it before it even begins. Granted, these last two were more vague abilities that may not even come into play realistically, but them even being a possibility certainly doesn't help their case, as that’s even more stunts Mantis would be able to pull which Team Zeke had no way to counter. 

So, while Team Zeke would be the more effective unit overall and would likely be able to deal with a lot of Liquid’s flunkies, thanks to Psycho Mantis’s wide set of abilities, Team Liquid had a perfect hard counter to anything the opposition could try to pull. 

Tertiary Factors

As you may expect from the two, intelligence is a fairly debatable category. Both are rather smart and have taken part in complex plans, along with having a lot of general knowledge. As such, that was likely a fairly equivalent category, so I wouldn’t say it’s likely for either to really win purely through wits. In terms of overall experience, they both were also about even. Both have been trained and fighting since a young age, have a wide history of military service both on screen and in backstory, and have plenty of instances of matching others with similar experience. And both had a natural edge over the other in terms of not being that comparable to what they’ve dealt with, as Liquid had over half a century of tech advancement on Zeke’s WW1-era warfare, but he also has never had to deal with anything quite like VM Gear or a Titan Shifter. The only character who was similar in the series I can think of would be Vamp due to his insane regeneration, but not even he can turn into a giant monster that can harden his skin. As such, experience was an overall equivalent affair. 

In terms of teamwork, the Warrior Unit generally had a better history of working as, well, a unit. While FOXHOUND did likely have experience as a group based on their past, just going by what we see onscreen you wouldn’t be able to tell, as they spend all of their boss fights on their own and don’t really have any instances of fighting alongside each other. And that’s before mentioning the team’s potential loyalty, as Liquid did have a man who rather famously tends to betray allies the second he sees things going south. Meanwhile, the Warrior Unit has shown many instances of being able to fight as a team with each other, with Bertholt and Reiner in particular being a very effective pair throughout their time. This meant that they were a lot more used to working together as a team, and therefore that they as a unit would be a lot more effective in actually putting plans into action. They also had a better sense of camaraderie and loyalty to each other, as they all are rather close allies, which would add to being able to be an effective unit.

Finally, in terms of weaknesses, while both do have a tendency to overestimate themselves and let their emotions get the better of them, Zeke was generally the one where that was more of an issue, as he and his team have a pretty consistent tendency to start panicking if things go south, whereas FOXHOUND was able to take setbacks with far more grace. And while the weakness on the back of the head would be tricky to figure out at first, Liquid had the resources to figure it out and take advantage of it, and this kind of weakness was something FOXHOUND lacked. Finally, while this was very unlikely realistically, if this were to turn into a decades long drawn out conflict, Liquid has about 2 decades before his age would start catching up to him, which would be more time than it would take for all the Titan Shifters to die off, meaning he would be able to play the long game better. 

Conclusion

“I am Liquid's doppelganger. And you are his. Just like your father... you're pretty good.”

Advantages:

• Faster reaction speeds regardless of the end

• Generally more effective arsenal

• Metal Gear REX would be strong enough to take out everyone on the other team…

• More effective set of standard soldiers

• Psycho Mantis counters a lot of the Warrior Squad’s options

• Less exploitable weaknesses

• BRRRROTHER

• Big Chungus 

• LIQUID

Equal:

• Generally comparable in attack and movement speed

• Generally equal in intelligence and experience

Disadvantages:

• Slightly weaker in overall strength and durability

• …but vice versa is true of Bertholt’s transformation blasts 

• Inferior in terms of natural abilities

• Team is overall less effective as a unit and in teamwork

• Daddy Issues 

• British

• Konami

“What a beautiful day it is. I wish I had seen it earlier. I suppose… after all the killing I've done… that's too much to ask.”

Advantages:

• Slight edge in overall strength and durability

• Bertholt is strong enough to take out everyone on the other team with his blasts…

• Superior in terms of natural abilities

• Team is overall more effective and more capable of destruction

• Better teamwork

• Got his pony

• Monke

• Attack on Titan music easily clears Metal Gear music (yes this is counting Revengeance)

Equal:

• Generally comparable in attack and movement speed

• Generally equal in intelligence and experience

Disadvantages:

• Slower reaction speeds regardless of the end

• …but vice versa is true of Metal Gear REX 

• Inferior overall arsenal 

• Titan Creation unlikely to be a factor

• Inferior standard soldiers

• No counter for Psycho Mantis 

• More exploitable weaknesses

• Daddy Issues 

• Levi Ackerman

• His Junior High self is a creep

This battle was surprisingly complicated to fully break down, as the two would have a lot of tricks and plans to pull. If you ran this match a hundred times it’s likely Zeke’s team takes the win plenty of times thanks to their greater strength, powers, and cohesion as a unit. However, between his faster speeds, more effective arsenal, and powerful psychic ally, Liquid had everything he needed to come out on top more often than not in this war. Looks like Zeke wouldn’t be able to slither his way to victory this time.

The winner is Liquid Snake & FOXHOUND

Next Time

Hanzo vs Takumi
(Overwatch vs Fire Emblem)

Source List:

• The Metal Gear Wiki

• Liquid Snake respect thread by u/rangernumberx

• Liquid Snake respect thread by kaijuking

• Psycho Mantis and Metal Gear REX respect threads by u/Cleverly_Clearly

• Sniper Wolf respect thread by deleted user

• Revolver Ocelot respect thread by u/Emperor-Pimpatine

• King Bradley vs Solidus Snake G1 Prediction Blog

• The Attack on Titan Wiki

• Beast Titan, Colossal Titan, Eren, and Levi respect threads by u/GuyOfEvil

• Female Titan respect thread by u/kalebsantos

• Pieck Finger respect threads by u/InverseFlash and u/Chriscftb97

• VS Battles Wiki